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I have zero problem with someone announcing on social media that they launched on HN. If they have a following it's because they have (or had) something interes

I have zero problem with someone announcing on social media that they launched on HN. If they have a following it's because they have (or had) something interesting to say there. If that's the case and they have launched something, then there's a >0 chance that it is also interesting. If nothing else, it's interesting solely for the purpose of being more plugged in to what the masses think is or should be popular, even if I disagree. At the risk of being hypocritical, I do have a problem with the opposite: coded messages to followers to flag en masse a post for basically any reason. The effects of flagging en masse vs. voting en masse are exaggerated as the data in the article illustrates. An optional email to moderators expressing the concern plus one personal flag is the appropriate response there, imo.

tptacek 9y ago
Then, to be straightforward about it, you have zero problem with people who have large Twitter followings controlling the front page of the site, because that's what you'd get if Twitter canvassing wasn't heavily penalized.
- ballenf 9y ago
  No, but I'd rather have sophisticated vote ring detection instead of mods having to police the verbiage used in a social media post on another platform. Or having to worry myself about being too excited about my product's launch. The policing of verbiage is so hard. If I posted the exact same thing to my followers that some paid influencer did, the effect would me markedly different. I would likely get 0-2 votes from my post, because I have real world friends as followers few of whom have accounts here. My point is that the same words used by different people can have very different implied meaning and outcomes. It just doesn't make sense to me to judge a post on the words used(1) instead of looking at the voting patterns. For example, what if someone not involved with the project just loves it and spontaneously posts about it? Should the project creators be punished for that independent act? I'd say, yes, but only if it looks like a vote ring. (1) You could make an exception for blatant vote begging, but even that would be caught by a good vote ring algorithm.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Part of the problem is the mindset that you're being "punished" when a story about your project is kept off the front page. In any case, you have to look at the whole thing as a system. If you allow people to point to their HN submissions on Twitter, the site will be unduly influenced by Twitter, rather than by the community that actually uses and contributes to the site. It's not a matter of intention --- I'm annoyed too that I can't casually link to things from Twitter! --- but of empirical fact.
minimaxir 9y ago
I disagree with this interpretation because there is zero reason to draw attention to an HN submission as it is being posted unless you have an ulterior motive. Especially with people who try to advertise using the /newest trick (which doesn’t work) and remove plausible deniability in the process. If it hits #1 on the front page after a bit of time, sure, humblebrag away on Twitter.

tptacek 9y ago

Then, to be straightforward about it, you have zero problem with people who have large Twitter followings controlling the front page of the site, because that's what you'd get if Twitter canvassing wasn't heavily penalized.

ballenf 9y ago
No, but I'd rather have sophisticated vote ring detection instead of mods having to police the verbiage used in a social media post on another platform. Or having to worry myself about being too excited about my product's launch. The policing of verbiage is so hard. If I posted the exact same thing to my followers that some paid influencer did, the effect would me markedly different. I would likely get 0-2 votes from my post, because I have real world friends as followers few of whom have accounts here. My point is that the same words used by different people can have very different implied meaning and outcomes. It just doesn't make sense to me to judge a post on the words used(1) instead of looking at the voting patterns. For example, what if someone not involved with the project just loves it and spontaneously posts about it? Should the project creators be punished for that independent act? I'd say, yes, but only if it looks like a vote ring. (1) You could make an exception for blatant vote begging, but even that would be caught by a good vote ring algorithm.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Part of the problem is the mindset that you're being "punished" when a story about your project is kept off the front page. In any case, you have to look at the whole thing as a system. If you allow people to point to their HN submissions on Twitter, the site will be unduly influenced by Twitter, rather than by the community that actually uses and contributes to the site. It's not a matter of intention --- I'm annoyed too that I can't casually link to things from Twitter! --- but of empirical fact.

minimaxir 9y ago

I disagree with this interpretation because there is zero reason to draw attention to an HN submission as it is being posted unless you have an ulterior motive. Especially with people who try to advertise using the /newest trick (which doesn’t work) and remove plausible deniability in the process. If it hits #1 on the front page after a bit of time, sure, humblebrag away on Twitter.