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I have spent the last 10 months learning italian, spending a total of 7 weeks in the country, 150 hours studying, and 85 hours speaking on iTalki. I have been

I have spent the last 10 months learning italian, spending a total of 7 weeks in the country, 150 hours studying, and 85 hours speaking on iTalki. I have been using the method's described in Fluent Forever[1] and they have been working extremely well for me. I have a speaking partner that I speak with 3-5 times a week for 1 hour each time (If you want to learn italian email me, he is awesome), and I keep track of literally everything I cant say, and after the lesson make cards, insert them into Anki, repeat. I can understand 80% of our conversations perfectly, and we talk for the full hour, rarely breaking into english. Am I speaking perfect italian - no, but I have absolutely no problems communicating. I was recently in Sicily with my family and hanging out with a family that spoke no English and was translating for 8 people in both directions with no problems. This is the first new language I have learned but it seems the key to me is described in the book 1) start with pronunciation and spelling (Gabe created pronunciation trainers for most languages) 2) Learn some basic verbs (I need, I want, may I, to go, to take, etc) 3) Building up a large list of nouns 4) Start using iTalki with a partner very soon into your journey and keep track of what you dont know. The state departments says it takes around 400 hours to learn the latin based languages, I believe that seems fairly accurate.

austinl 9y ago
+1 for iTalki and Fluent Forever. There are so many apps out there that give you the illusion of progress (e.g. the author's "74% fluent") but with nothing to show for it. There is no way you can get around practicing speaking and listening if your end-goal is to speak and listen. I started learning French maybe 6 months ago and have done ~20 hours of iTalki sessions. You'll sound terrible when you start, but that's okay — you're paying them to hear your terrible French/German/Spanish/etc. It's all gets better.
drharby 9y ago
What's a typical going rate for a speech partner?
- misiti3780 9y ago
  7-15/hour for non "teachers"
hashmal 9y ago
I'm learning German with Fluent Forever, and though it's a bit early to have a definitive opinion, so far it's going really well, far better than any of my previous attempts. Fantastic method.
akeck 9y ago
Interesting. If you were interacting for 16h a day "in country" for 7 weeks, then (16 * 7 * 7) + 150 + 85 = 1019 hours. If State Departments say 400 hours, then this sheds light on why many non-native fluent speakers recommend immersion - there's simply no faster way to meet or exceed 400 hours of practice than daily immersion.
- schacon 9y ago
  Think about how much time you spend a day speaking even your own language in your daily life. Do you think it's 16 hours in a day? 400 hours of practice is a pretty good rule of thumb I think, but that's deliberate practice, not just physically being awake in a country that speaks the language. You need to be engaging in conversation and actively processing things for those 400 hours. Plus it has to be at a practical level. Watching TV in Japanese when you don't know any Japanese doesn't make you much better at the language - your brain isn't really processing anything. Or to make a music metaphor, you can't really just play with a violin for hundreds of hours and be good. You need a tutor, someone to challenge you at your level and help you make small steps so you slowly get better. Anders Ericsson has done some fascinating research on excellence and the important difference between doing something and deliberate practice at it. Also, don't mistake being in a country with language immersion. When I was in Paris and knew some French, I would maybe be able to do a few hours a day at best, if I was really trying to engage. Even in English in America, I probably only really talk or engage in conversation for a few hours a day on average. I was in Germany last year for a few weeks when I was around an A1 level and I barely progressed, because the immersion is very surface-level at that stage. You have encounters but it's not really practice - most interactions are too high-level and don't help you because you can't process them.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Absolutely... Academically, I've only failed two things. Typing and Spanish. Today, I'm fluent in Spanish - though a bit slower than natives. Why? I spent a whole lot of time with my pidgin Spanish below the border. Eventually, I just learned. I did make an effort to learn a few things every day, but I ended up actually learning more than that and doing so without even realizing it. I can't write Spanish, but I can read it. I can write it well enough so that I could probably pass for a mentally handicapped third grader. But, I can speak the language. Other than some basic phrases, it's the only other spoken language I'm even remotely fluent. (I also sign, ASL specifically, which has been surprisingly handy.) So, if someone really wants to learn a language, go visit the country where it is spoken and don't hang out with tourists. Learn a few phrases (ordering beer and where is the bathroom are good starters) and you'll pick up the rest. As near as I can tell, people are very happy to help. I'm not sure if there is some psychological thing to it, but people seem really helpful when you're making a legitimate effort to learn their language. By fluent, I mean able to understand and convey what is needed and not sound too silly. I'm sure I'm not always using proper Spanish. "Mí nescito habla Español, no Englais por favor." That got me started along my journey of Spanish speaking. I'd say I was okay after two weeks. Okay enough to get get around. I was not bad after a month. I was actually able to have a full conversation, without much thought, after about three months. Also, I'm not sure... Here's a puzzle for you people into psych stuff. During my immersion, I would sometimes dream in Spanish. Except, in my dreams, I was fluent. As in, I would prattle on and converse in Spanish - fluently. Except, at the time, I wasn't actually fluent. What language was I really speaking in my dream?
Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
I think the main take-away is that there is no magic bullet. No single app, class, methodology, etc - will teach you the language. I finally started being successful with Japanese when I stopped looking for a single magic bullet and started pursuing whatever leads were proving effective - now I have a varied study approach that's suited to my needs. After about 6 months of study with this approach, I can hold a conversation in Japanese and read elementary/middle school aged manga.
vram22 9y ago
iTalki seems to only support signup via Facebook. That's not so good, for those who do not wish to do it that way. I've seen many other web sites/apps that do that (or signup via Google), but most of the others also support the regular method of signing up by creating an account and giving your email address. Wish iTalki did too :(

austinl 9y ago

+1 for iTalki and Fluent Forever. There are so many apps out there that give you the illusion of progress (e.g. the author's "74% fluent") but with nothing to show for it. There is no way you can get around practicing speaking and listening if your end-goal is to speak and listen. I started learning French maybe 6 months ago and have done ~20 hours of iTalki sessions. You'll sound terrible when you start, but that's okay — you're paying them to hear your terrible French/German/Spanish/etc. It's all gets better.

drharby 9y ago

What's a typical going rate for a speech partner?

misiti3780 9y ago
7-15/hour for non "teachers"

hashmal 9y ago

I'm learning German with Fluent Forever, and though it's a bit early to have a definitive opinion, so far it's going really well, far better than any of my previous attempts. Fantastic method.

akeck 9y ago

Interesting. If you were interacting for 16h a day "in country" for 7 weeks, then (16 * 7 * 7) + 150 + 85 = 1019 hours. If State Departments say 400 hours, then this sheds light on why many non-native fluent speakers recommend immersion - there's simply no faster way to meet or exceed 400 hours of practice than daily immersion.

schacon 9y ago
Think about how much time you spend a day speaking even your own language in your daily life. Do you think it's 16 hours in a day? 400 hours of practice is a pretty good rule of thumb I think, but that's deliberate practice, not just physically being awake in a country that speaks the language. You need to be engaging in conversation and actively processing things for those 400 hours. Plus it has to be at a practical level. Watching TV in Japanese when you don't know any Japanese doesn't make you much better at the language - your brain isn't really processing anything. Or to make a music metaphor, you can't really just play with a violin for hundreds of hours and be good. You need a tutor, someone to challenge you at your level and help you make small steps so you slowly get better. Anders Ericsson has done some fascinating research on excellence and the important difference between doing something and deliberate practice at it. Also, don't mistake being in a country with language immersion. When I was in Paris and knew some French, I would maybe be able to do a few hours a day at best, if I was really trying to engage. Even in English in America, I probably only really talk or engage in conversation for a few hours a day on average. I was in Germany last year for a few weeks when I was around an A1 level and I barely progressed, because the immersion is very surface-level at that stage. You have encounters but it's not really practice - most interactions are too high-level and don't help you because you can't process them.
KGIII 9y ago
Absolutely... Academically, I've only failed two things. Typing and Spanish. Today, I'm fluent in Spanish - though a bit slower than natives. Why? I spent a whole lot of time with my pidgin Spanish below the border. Eventually, I just learned. I did make an effort to learn a few things every day, but I ended up actually learning more than that and doing so without even realizing it. I can't write Spanish, but I can read it. I can write it well enough so that I could probably pass for a mentally handicapped third grader. But, I can speak the language. Other than some basic phrases, it's the only other spoken language I'm even remotely fluent. (I also sign, ASL specifically, which has been surprisingly handy.) So, if someone really wants to learn a language, go visit the country where it is spoken and don't hang out with tourists. Learn a few phrases (ordering beer and where is the bathroom are good starters) and you'll pick up the rest. As near as I can tell, people are very happy to help. I'm not sure if there is some psychological thing to it, but people seem really helpful when you're making a legitimate effort to learn their language. By fluent, I mean able to understand and convey what is needed and not sound too silly. I'm sure I'm not always using proper Spanish. "Mí nescito habla Español, no Englais por favor." That got me started along my journey of Spanish speaking. I'd say I was okay after two weeks. Okay enough to get get around. I was not bad after a month. I was actually able to have a full conversation, without much thought, after about three months. Also, I'm not sure... Here's a puzzle for you people into psych stuff. During my immersion, I would sometimes dream in Spanish. Except, in my dreams, I was fluent. As in, I would prattle on and converse in Spanish - fluently. Except, at the time, I wasn't actually fluent. What language was I really speaking in my dream?

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago

I think the main take-away is that there is no magic bullet. No single app, class, methodology, etc - will teach you the language. I finally started being successful with Japanese when I stopped looking for a single magic bullet and started pursuing whatever leads were proving effective - now I have a varied study approach that's suited to my needs. After about 6 months of study with this approach, I can hold a conversation in Japanese and read elementary/middle school aged manga.

vram22 9y ago

iTalki seems to only support signup via Facebook. That's not so good, for those who do not wish to do it that way. I've seen many other web sites/apps that do that (or signup via Google), but most of the others also support the regular method of signing up by creating an account and giving your email address. Wish iTalki did too :(