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What a terrible justice system. It's a disgrace to this country. The way the prosecutors are incentivized to lock people up away forever with little or no evide

What a terrible justice system. It's a disgrace to this country. The way the prosecutors are incentivized to lock people up away forever with little or no evidence, and even kill innocent people (with the death penalty), is cruel and evil.

chongli 9y ago
It's not a justice system, it's a judicial system. Justice is its ostensible purpose, sure, but its true propose is to maintain order so that the state can preserve its authority.
- chimprich 9y ago
  I don't think that's true - beliefs like this are down to a human inclination to over-ascribe intentionality to systems. I doubt anyone has sat down and planned a system to disregard justice and make the state stronger. It's a bad state of affairs that has evolved out of well-meaning but ultimately malign pressures such as a desire to be seen to be tough on crime, and save public money by discouraging trials.
  - chongli 9y ago
    When I say "true purpose", I am specifically not ascribing intentionality to it. The "true purpose" of a bee's stinger is to defend the hive, regardless of the consequences to the individual bee's life. Bees were not designed by humans, yet aspects of their anatomy can still have a true purpose.
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    When politicians get Tough on Crime for SuperPredtors and start a War on the Particular Drugs Browm People Prefer , the itentionality becomes bare.
  - evincarofautumn 9y ago
    Maybe “purpose” is the wrong term, but surely the effect of judicial & law enforcement systems is to be the mechanism by which a state metes out “violence” to assert its power & legitimate authority.
  - speedplane 9y ago
    > I doubt anyone has sat down and planned a system to disregard justice and make the state stronger. Only a tyrant would do that. But you still need to recognize that a justice system cannot provide justice unless it has power and credibility. A powerless justice system isn't a justice system at all. So there are definitely instances where "justice" is sacrificed for the sake of the "justice system".

chongli 9y ago

It's not a justice system, it's a judicial system. Justice is its ostensible purpose, sure, but its true propose is to maintain order so that the state can preserve its authority.

chimprich 9y ago
I don't think that's true - beliefs like this are down to a human inclination to over-ascribe intentionality to systems. I doubt anyone has sat down and planned a system to disregard justice and make the state stronger. It's a bad state of affairs that has evolved out of well-meaning but ultimately malign pressures such as a desire to be seen to be tough on crime, and save public money by discouraging trials.
- chongli 9y ago
  When I say "true purpose", I am specifically not ascribing intentionality to it. The "true purpose" of a bee's stinger is to defend the hive, regardless of the consequences to the individual bee's life. Bees were not designed by humans, yet aspects of their anatomy can still have a true purpose.
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  When politicians get Tough on Crime for SuperPredtors and start a War on the Particular Drugs Browm People Prefer , the itentionality becomes bare.
- evincarofautumn 9y ago
  Maybe “purpose” is the wrong term, but surely the effect of judicial & law enforcement systems is to be the mechanism by which a state metes out “violence” to assert its power & legitimate authority.
- speedplane 9y ago
  > I doubt anyone has sat down and planned a system to disregard justice and make the state stronger. Only a tyrant would do that. But you still need to recognize that a justice system cannot provide justice unless it has power and credibility. A powerless justice system isn't a justice system at all. So there are definitely instances where "justice" is sacrificed for the sake of the "justice system".