29 ms·

Vim, apparently, is the new emacs. /me ducks and runs out of the room

by incomplete 9y ago

yarrel 9y ago
You forgot to press ESC before typing that, so...
- zeamaize 9y ago
  It always seems to take people a long time to figure out vim’s keys and usage pattern but it’s quite easy. I have people ask me how to quit vim all the time and I’m amazed they can’t remember a few simple keystrokes. CTRL-D sudo apt-get remove vim sudo apt-get purge vim See, it’s not hard at all to learn the proper way to use vim!
harrygeez 9y ago
Go home, you're drunk
PurpleRamen 9y ago
Still a long road to go. But appearently neovim is working on making which-key (https://github.com/justbur/emacs-which-key https://github.com/justbur/emacs-which-key) possible, which would close a great gap.
Lio 9y ago
I think there's loads of great ideas in emacs we can use for inspiration. I've tried Spacemacs a couple of times, it's very good but not for me I think. I'd be happy to import ideas like dired though.
- justinmk 9y ago
  dirvish.vim is my attempt to adapt dired to the Vim philosophy. It doesn't attempt to "DWIM", but provides :Shdo which allows you to script file operations using your shell. https://github.com/justinmk/vim-dirvish/ https://github.com/justinmk/vim-dirvish/
eadmund 9y ago
That's what I don't get: for years, vi (and vim) mocked the emacs community (with some justification) for throwing everything and the kitchen sink into our editor. We were building an entire operating environment, while vi was providing a nice, solid, fast text editor. But with vim & neovim, people are building a complex operating environment in a terrible language, and ignoring the man-centuries of effort which have gone into emacs. Why not just switch over? In what ways is a tricked-out vim or neovim preferable to emacs? In what ways is tricking out vim or neovim preferable to emacs?
- le-mark 9y ago
  I have a similar thought coming from a Java/Eclipse background; why use a bunch of half baked plugins to build a poor IDE experience? Vanilla vim is very capable. Personally, I use zero plugins, and a minimal vimrc, and have for years.
- sevensor 9y ago
  This bothers me too, as a vi / vim user of 20 years, I've always respected emacs even if I didn't want to use it. But now it's getting to be where vim too is laboring under a big pile of hacks, and in a worse language than elisp. Recently I've switched to kakoune for development, which innovated where it counts by implementing new ideas about the core job of editing text. I'll still use plain vi as $EDITOR, because I know it's always there for me, but vim-as-an-ide is not for me.
- justinmk 9y ago
  There's a lot of engineering in Vim as well. E.g., Vim's completion system is actually real cool once you learn it (it "clicked" for me after watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TX3kV3TICU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TX3kV3TICU ). Vim regex, folding, and spellcheck also have useful features that you won't find anywhere else. More generally, I agree with you. If it were up to me I would prefer to use Emacs as a baseline. But it's not up to me, just like it wasn't up to Google to decide that Javascript wins. Ubiquity wins. Emacs lost. > for throwing everything and the kitchen sink into our editor. ... But with vim & neovim, people are building a complex operating environment That's not really true. The explicit goal of Nvim is to be embedded and focus on "peer to peer" nvim instances. That's the opposite of Emacs' constant reminder that there needs to be a single Emacs daemon controlling everything, and you "should never leave Emacs".

Vim, apparently, is the new emacs. /me ducks and runs out of the room

yarrel 9y ago

You forgot to press ESC before typing that, so...

zeamaize 9y ago
It always seems to take people a long time to figure out vim’s keys and usage pattern but it’s quite easy. I have people ask me how to quit vim all the time and I’m amazed they can’t remember a few simple keystrokes. CTRL-D sudo apt-get remove vim sudo apt-get purge vim See, it’s not hard at all to learn the proper way to use vim!

harrygeez 9y ago

Go home, you're drunk

PurpleRamen 9y ago

Still a long road to go. But appearently neovim is working on making which-key (https://github.com/justbur/emacs-which-key https://github.com/justbur/emacs-which-key) possible, which would close a great gap.

Lio 9y ago

I think there's loads of great ideas in emacs we can use for inspiration. I've tried Spacemacs a couple of times, it's very good but not for me I think. I'd be happy to import ideas like dired though.

justinmk 9y ago
dirvish.vim is my attempt to adapt dired to the Vim philosophy. It doesn't attempt to "DWIM", but provides :Shdo which allows you to script file operations using your shell. https://github.com/justinmk/vim-dirvish/ https://github.com/justinmk/vim-dirvish/

eadmund 9y ago

That's what I don't get: for years, vi (and vim) mocked the emacs community (with some justification) for throwing everything and the kitchen sink into our editor. We were building an entire operating environment, while vi was providing a nice, solid, fast text editor. But with vim & neovim, people are building a complex operating environment in a terrible language, and ignoring the man-centuries of effort which have gone into emacs. Why not just switch over? In what ways is a tricked-out vim or neovim preferable to emacs? In what ways is tricking out vim or neovim preferable to emacs?

le-mark 9y ago
I have a similar thought coming from a Java/Eclipse background; why use a bunch of half baked plugins to build a poor IDE experience? Vanilla vim is very capable. Personally, I use zero plugins, and a minimal vimrc, and have for years.
sevensor 9y ago
This bothers me too, as a vi / vim user of 20 years, I've always respected emacs even if I didn't want to use it. But now it's getting to be where vim too is laboring under a big pile of hacks, and in a worse language than elisp. Recently I've switched to kakoune for development, which innovated where it counts by implementing new ideas about the core job of editing text. I'll still use plain vi as $EDITOR, because I know it's always there for me, but vim-as-an-ide is not for me.
justinmk 9y ago
There's a lot of engineering in Vim as well. E.g., Vim's completion system is actually real cool once you learn it (it "clicked" for me after watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TX3kV3TICU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TX3kV3TICU ). Vim regex, folding, and spellcheck also have useful features that you won't find anywhere else. More generally, I agree with you. If it were up to me I would prefer to use Emacs as a baseline. But it's not up to me, just like it wasn't up to Google to decide that Javascript wins. Ubiquity wins. Emacs lost. > for throwing everything and the kitchen sink into our editor. ... But with vim & neovim, people are building a complex operating environment That's not really true. The explicit goal of Nvim is to be embedded and focus on "peer to peer" nvim instances. That's the opposite of Emacs' constant reminder that there needs to be a single Emacs daemon controlling everything, and you "should never leave Emacs".