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Universities have become country clubs. Those funding figures include absurd overhead rates that fund absurd compensation packages for professors and administra

Universities have become country clubs. Those funding figures include absurd overhead rates that fund absurd compensation packages for professors and administrators. Tuition has also gotten absurd. This bubble has to burst before we can repair our public universities.

dcre 9y ago
I agree with your first sentence, but professors at public universities don't actually make much money compared to other professions with similar education levels. Typical pay is 70-90k. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/11/annual-aaup-salary-survey-says-professor-pay-34 https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/11/annual-aaup-s...
- Brybry 9y ago
  My understanding, the last time I looked into it, is that universities have a lot more administrators than they used to and those admins earn a lot more than they used to. And it wasn't just absolute, it was relative to teacher/student ratios and tenured positions growth and educator wage increase.
  - mhneu 9y ago
    Great article on this by a Nobel laureate at Harvard: "A Top-Heavy Administration? By DAVID H. HUBEL January 31, 2012 17 In 1958, Stephen Kuffler was invited to come from Johns Hopkins Medical School to Harvard Medical School to become a full professor in the Department of Pharmacology. He brought with him four post-doctoral fellows: Torsten Wiesel, Ed Furshpan, David Potter, and myself. Along with Ed Kravitz, we formed the nucleus that led to the founding of the Department of Neurobiology five years later. When we arrived, Harvard Medical School was directed by one dean—George Parker Berry. He was assisted by a genius, Henry Meadow, who joined HMS in 1950 as executive secretary to the Committee on Research and Development. The two of them ran the whole school. Berry was grouchy and firm-handed and what he said was law. .... you should see the list of FAS administrators. My printout runs to over 16 pages. I haven't counted up the various kinds of FAS deans, but the list dwarfs that of the Medical School. " http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/1/31/david-hubel-harvard-administration-deans-medical/ http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/1/31/david-hubel-harv...
    - smelendez 9y ago
      Here's the list of deans at Harvard Medical School: https://hms.harvard.edu/about-hms/leadership https://hms.harvard.edu/about-hms/leadership Which positions do you think could be eliminated or merged?
cvwright 9y ago
It's not as rosy as you might imagine. Many universities actually manage to lose money on federally funded research, as the amount of compliance work required to maintain grant funding actually outstrips the overhead rates. And yes, I've seen the overhead rates that universities are charging lately, and I agree they're absurd. Yet somehow it's still not enough. [1] Karen A. Holbrook and Paul R. Sanberg. Understanding the High Cost of Success in University Research. http://www.uh.edu/af/docs/IDC/TIarticle.pdf http://www.uh.edu/af/docs/IDC/TIarticle.pdf
- Fomite 9y ago
  This. Our overhead rate is marginally less than the cost of actually doing research. Especially when one considers that overhead rates are also the things that fund faculty startup packages and capital improvements.
mhneu 9y ago
Professors in science, engineering, health, economics, and finance are wildly underpaid compared to what they could earn in other jobs. Professors take that pay cut for academic freedom, the ability to control their own lives and think independently, and to be part of an intellectual community. It is common for academic medical doctors to earn two to three times less than doctors in private practice. (i.e. 50% to 33% of private practice physicians. For example, an intensivist can make $500k+ in some private hospitals and normally makes $200-250k in an academic setting.)
- Fomite 9y ago
  Pretty much this. I'm well-paid as far as an assistant professor goes, and leaving academia would involve a pretty hefty salary hike.
jccalhoun 9y ago
I guess I'm a professor at the wrong school then. I'm not complaining about my pay but it will still be several years before I will have made enough to pay off my student loans.

dcre 9y ago

I agree with your first sentence, but professors at public universities don't actually make much money compared to other professions with similar education levels. Typical pay is 70-90k. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/11/annual-aaup-salary-survey-says-professor-pay-34 https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/11/annual-aaup-s...

Brybry 9y ago
My understanding, the last time I looked into it, is that universities have a lot more administrators than they used to and those admins earn a lot more than they used to. And it wasn't just absolute, it was relative to teacher/student ratios and tenured positions growth and educator wage increase.
- mhneu 9y ago
  Great article on this by a Nobel laureate at Harvard: "A Top-Heavy Administration? By DAVID H. HUBEL January 31, 2012 17 In 1958, Stephen Kuffler was invited to come from Johns Hopkins Medical School to Harvard Medical School to become a full professor in the Department of Pharmacology. He brought with him four post-doctoral fellows: Torsten Wiesel, Ed Furshpan, David Potter, and myself. Along with Ed Kravitz, we formed the nucleus that led to the founding of the Department of Neurobiology five years later. When we arrived, Harvard Medical School was directed by one dean—George Parker Berry. He was assisted by a genius, Henry Meadow, who joined HMS in 1950 as executive secretary to the Committee on Research and Development. The two of them ran the whole school. Berry was grouchy and firm-handed and what he said was law. .... you should see the list of FAS administrators. My printout runs to over 16 pages. I haven't counted up the various kinds of FAS deans, but the list dwarfs that of the Medical School. " http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/1/31/david-hubel-harvard-administration-deans-medical/ http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/1/31/david-hubel-harv...
  - smelendez 9y ago
    Here's the list of deans at Harvard Medical School: https://hms.harvard.edu/about-hms/leadership https://hms.harvard.edu/about-hms/leadership Which positions do you think could be eliminated or merged?

cvwright 9y ago

It's not as rosy as you might imagine. Many universities actually manage to lose money on federally funded research, as the amount of compliance work required to maintain grant funding actually outstrips the overhead rates. And yes, I've seen the overhead rates that universities are charging lately, and I agree they're absurd. Yet somehow it's still not enough. [1] Karen A. Holbrook and Paul R. Sanberg. Understanding the High Cost of Success in University Research. http://www.uh.edu/af/docs/IDC/TIarticle.pdf http://www.uh.edu/af/docs/IDC/TIarticle.pdf

Fomite 9y ago
This. Our overhead rate is marginally less than the cost of actually doing research. Especially when one considers that overhead rates are also the things that fund faculty startup packages and capital improvements.

mhneu 9y ago

Professors in science, engineering, health, economics, and finance are wildly underpaid compared to what they could earn in other jobs. Professors take that pay cut for academic freedom, the ability to control their own lives and think independently, and to be part of an intellectual community. It is common for academic medical doctors to earn two to three times less than doctors in private practice. (i.e. 50% to 33% of private practice physicians. For example, an intensivist can make $500k+ in some private hospitals and normally makes $200-250k in an academic setting.)

Fomite 9y ago
Pretty much this. I'm well-paid as far as an assistant professor goes, and leaving academia would involve a pretty hefty salary hike.

jccalhoun 9y ago

I guess I'm a professor at the wrong school then. I'm not complaining about my pay but it will still be several years before I will have made enough to pay off my student loans.