7 ms·

Tezos Raised $232M in a Hot Coin Offering, Then a Fight Broke Out

54 points by jeremyrwelch 9y ago

laxatives 9y ago
I had been following Tezos closely since November and was really excited about the ICO. But it became incredibly apparent that the Breitmans were dishonest. Firstly, the compensation structure was ludicrous. Many people were upset about an uncapped ICO -- I thought this was fine, until it became apparent that they would make hundreds of millions of dollars IMMEDIATELY. They have absolutely no incentive to continue the product or work another day in their lives. A huge portion of their new found wealth doesn't have a vesting period or depend on any tangible benchmarks. Secondly, the background of Tezos is completely revised and modified according to their whims. They claim they had a large team working on the project for 4-5 years full-time. Even a cursory glance exposes that one person worked on Tezos while working full time for a major bank and that the team grew insignificantly 6-12 months before ICO. They even changed their LinkedIn profiles to revert this history. Lastly, both Arthur and his wife are completely inept socially, or knew they would get rich enough to not give a fuck. I'm not one to judge a person, but its certainly not ideal as a manager and figure-head of a billion dollar project. I didn't even think it mattered until I heard they were incredibly rude to just about everyone in their Slack channel asking the most innocuous questions. I thought it must have been one bad experience. I joined the channel and the very first few words I spoke were met by flaming from Arthur himself. Not a couple hours later, he's raging on another person in the chat room at a time when there might be 100 messages/week. Every interaction he had over the next week oscillated between flaming and get rich memes. Later they would delete channel history and eventually shut them down completely under the guise of "preventing fishing attempts", though I never saw a suspicious link anywhere. Arthur stepped down as President because of these issues, but his wife did not fare much better (although I never interacted with her directly). The ICO seemed worse than burning money. It would be like giving money to organized crime or the opposition party. IMO they have no intention of delivering anything, except maybe to save face. If the past is any indication, they don't give a shit about saving face either.
- touchofevil 9y ago
  I think you are incorrect about how much the Breitman's would make from the ICO. The Breitman's company DLS would get 8.5% of the ICO funds once the main net launches and then their company would also get 10% of the genesis block, but that vests over four years. So 8.5% of $232 million would be about $20 million and it's hard to say what 10% of the genesis block would be worth over the course vesting. Below are the details about the payments to the Breitmans. https://www.tezos.com/dls https://www.tezos.com/dls Payment Structure and Contrast to Common fundraising practices It has become common in fundraisers, or in token generation events (TGEs) for founders of entities selling tokens to reward themselves, in addition to their token allocation, via salaries with little or no accountability and oversight and in a manner that doesn’t reflect the viability of their product. In contrast, payments to DLS are contractually prescribed via the following criteria, which are being shared publicly and in advance of the fundraiser: No payment will be made unless and until the terms in the preceding section of this document have been met. Once met, DLS’ shareholders will receive 8.5% of the contributions made during the fundraiser. In addition, DLS’ shareholders will receive a 10% allocation of the tokens in the genesis block, placed in a smart contract that will vest monthly over a period of 48 months. These criteria represent a far more transparent and equitable reflection of the reality of the transaction.
  - kirillseva 9y ago
    who controls the rest of the money? Could be the same people, just indirectly, via friends or shell companies incorporated in Switzerland
    - touchofevil 9y ago
      The ICO funds are controlled by a Swiss foundation. See my other comment in this thread regarding the board members of the Swiss foundation.
    - trhway 9y ago
      >who controls the rest of the money? Could be the same people, just indirectly, via friends or shell companies incorporated in Switzerland you're absolutely right : " The idea, according to documents on the Tezos website, was that the foundation would raise money via the ICO, then acquire DLS, the Breitman-controlled company that has been developing Tezos. " So it seems that the plan was that Breitmans would take as much money as they want (can we say "all the money"? :), and probably the foundation guy that Breitmans are fighting now did bait-and-switch reneging on the agreement to buy the company (as it would be hard to believe that even in Switzerland such agreement can exist in a legally binding form) and chose instead to have all this money to himself. $400M of free money can do that to people :)
wmf 9y ago
Primary non-paywalled source: https://medium.com/@arthurb/the-path-forward-eb2e6f63be67 https://medium.com/@arthurb/the-path-forward-eb2e6f63be67
- numismatex 9y ago
  Thanks for that.
dmitrygr 9y ago
I've read half the article and still don't know what a Tezos is.
- numismatex 9y ago
  Self-amending blockchain.
- warent 9y ago
  I skimmed their white paper[1] and saw this beauty: > In order to reduce uncertainty regarding the monetary mass, addresses showing no activity for over a year (as determined by timestamps) are destroyed along with the coins they contain It is, however, followed by this footnote: > (inactive addresses will no longer lose their funds after one year as initially proposed in the white paper, they will only lose their staking rights until they become active again. What it means is that if an address is inactive, it will not be selected to create blocks (which would slow down the consensus algorithm), and it will not be allowed to vote until it is reactivated (to avoid uncertainty about participation rate). 1. https://www.tezos.com/static/papers/white_paper.pdf https://www.tezos.com/static/papers/white_paper.pdf Edit: Added footnote
  - SilasX 9y ago
    Yes, it's easy to penalize hoarded money. The hard part is penalizing substantively hoarded money. If I just make sham exchanges back and forth between some ring of addresses that I own, then we're right back to square one. Does it do anything to distinguish sham transactions from real ones? Or have any theory about the difference? If not, then it's not doing anything novel. (I know you're not the advocate of this, just a general reply to technical solutions to low money velocity.)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
th0br0 9y ago
Oddly enough, even Reuters picked this up: https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-funding-tezos-specialreport/special-report-backroom-battle-imperils-230-million-cryptocurrency-venture-idUKKBN1CN35K https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-funding-tezos-spec...
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Given the amount of money involved that's not so odd.
coldcode 9y ago
At this point I wonder if people will soon be doing ICOs and then skipping the country. Why are people investing in random things at such a ridiculous rates just because they are cryptocurrency based? You invest in things hoping it pays off for you, not handing out free "money". The Mafia must be envious.
relyio 9y ago
It's still an interesting project, even if drama like this sucks. Of course, I'd have preferred to see a technical article about the engineering backing the project. Rather than one about a bad apple making its way to a foundation board member sit and caught self-dealing by the rest of the team. But, it's not the end of the world. I hope people will move on soon. Guy was caught. He has been suspended. I guess his removal is pending modulo some legal process. That being said, I'm a bit surprised the project hasn't had much more interest from HN readers though. Why is that? It's going to be one of the largest commercial application of OCaml, alongside Jane Street's. There's lots of cool hacking going on and software engineering challenges associated to it e.g replacing wasteful Proof-of-Work with PoS, hot-swapping protocol upgrades (voted on by stakeholders) safely, figuring out constitutionalism etc. (https://github.com/tezos/tezos https://github.com/tezos/tezos). Among the thing that I'm most excited about is the inflation-funded innovation. Every voting cycle, you can submit an amendment to the protocol alongside a potential token issuance (i.e an amount of tokens that will be issued to you if the amendment is accepted). That means you get directly rewarded for the added-value you bring to the protocol. That's a great positive feedback loop. Right now, I believe that there can only be one amendment approved every cycle. So, the "great engineer quits menial technical job to work on state-of-the-art amendments to the Tezos protocol" scenario isn't quite feasible on the short term horizon. I'd wager that is a limitation that will be eventually engineered out. It has so much potential. Disclaimer: author donated to the Tezos fundraiser.
- pavlov 9y ago
  Do you have Tezos tokens? If so, it’s polite to disclose your stake, like on stock investment forums. Promoting an ICO that doesn’t have a shipping product is much like promoting a penny stock.
  - anonyxyz 9y ago
    No one has tokens, it doesn't exist yet.
    - pavlov 9y ago
kilimchoi 9y ago
You can bypass the paywall with this link, https://outline.com/WthVfn https://outline.com/WthVfn
touchofevil 9y ago
After the ICO, I started trying to figure out who was on the board of the Tezos Foundation. I found it strange that there was very little info about who was on a three person board that controls hundreds of millions of dollars. What I found was that one person seems to be a company formation agent, Mr. Schmitz-Krummacher. Another is, Gevers, who is now being accused of self-dealing by Arthur Breitman. And the third is a virtually unknown software engineer named Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons. I'm assuming that Diego Pons is a friend of Arthur's because they are both from France and both lived in NYC. I also have a hunch that there is a secret agreement in writing in place that compels Mr. Schmitz-Krummacher to vote according to someone else's wishes, perhaps Mr. Pons. If there is such an agreement in place, hopefully Mr. Pons is staying loyal to Arthur Breitman. Handing over 200-400 Million to a three person foundation that is 1/3 company formation agent, 1/3 alleged crook, and 1/3 random software engineer seems like it may not have been the best idea after all. But the reason for this is probably to take advantage of the lack of know your customer laws in Switzerland. https://forums.tezos.community/t/who-is-running-the-tezos-foundation/649 https://forums.tezos.community/t/who-is-running-the-tezos-fo...
- literallycancer 9y ago
  What's the logic behind having a secret agreement in writing?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jacquesm 9y ago
Is there a list of ICO's that delivered on their initial promises (or even a substantial fraction of them)?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- wmf 9y ago
  Note that very few ICOs are even a year old so even in the best case we shouldn't expect to see many successes.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Not asking for many. Asking for any.
    - atomical 9y ago
      What do you mean by initial promises? Would you accept a list of startups that have met milestones on their roadmap and have a product to demo?
- kirillseva 9y ago
  Ethereum has pretty much delivered on both the technical promise and financial return
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- atomical 9y ago
  It requires a great deal of time and resources to develop blockchain software because everything has to be built up front. Doing an upgrade is not easy because nodes can choose not to upgrade and fork instead. Also, bugs mean people lose money and consequently faith in the project. Tezos intends to solve the contentious fork problem by incorporating the governing structure into the protocol. Whether this works better than what is currently happening in the Bitcoin community remains to be seen. Back to your initial question. Ethereum is a good example, but most of the ICO's that raised money recently won't launch until 2018-2019 at the earliest. In fact, some of them have innovation gaps. It's a long road.
hamburglar1 9y ago
Does it really take 232M to make a formally verifiable smart contract language?
- atomical 9y ago
  When money flows freely you raise what you can. It's more than just verifiable smart contracts though. With money comes the ability to do a lot of research and lots of independent projects. Take a look at the stuff Ethereum is researching. Watch one of Vitalik's talks on YouTube.
Animats 9y ago
Better coverage in Reuters: [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-funding-tezos-specialreport/special-report-backroom-battle-imperils-230-million-cryptocurrency-venture-idUSKBN1CN35K https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-funding-tezos-spe...
- laxatives 9y ago
  > The Breitmans had also hired Strange Brew Strategies, a U.S. communications company, to promote their project, and Reuters wrote a news story on May 5 about Draper’s involvement. > In pitching the story to Reuters, John O‘Brien, a principal of Strange Brew, had made claims about Tezos’ progress. He wrote: “The applications of Tezos, ranging from derivatives settlement to micro-insurance, are real and recognized by industry giants. Ernst & Young, Deloitte, LexiFi, etc. have adopted Tezos in their development environments and labs.” > On Oct. 3, a spokeswoman for the accounting firm Ernst & Young told Reuters: “The statement is not correct. EY has not adopted Tezos.” A spokesman for Deloitte said Tezos’ code is “one of many technologies we’re considering” with blockchain, but it’s “still early stage and we haven’t used the technology for a client project.” > Jean-Marc Eber, CEO of the French software company LexiFi, said, “The sentence, as stated, isn’t accurate and unfortunately exaggerated, to say the least.” While there had been “informal contacts,” he said, “at this stage, LexiFi has not adopted Tezos’ technology in its development environment or labs.” Jesus.
  - Animats 9y ago
    That's grist for the SEC enforcement mill. Understand how the SEC works. They're complaint-driven. After a few "I lost money on Zowiecoin after they didn't do what they said they'd do" complaints, a case gets assigned to a staff investigator. They dig up the obvious stuff quickly, and if it looks like there's enough bad stuff, the slow process of doing something to the people behind Zowiecoin starts moving forward. The SEC announces about two enforcement actions a day. We'll start seeing SEC actions once ICOs crash and there are angry investors.
Timumba 9y ago
New messenger https://ico.echat.io/ https://ico.echat.io/ with crypto

54 points by jeremyrwelch 9y ago

I had been following Tezos closely since November and was really excited about the ICO. But it became incredibly apparent that the Breitmans were dishonest. Firstly, the compensation structure was ludicrous. Many people were upset about an uncapped ICO -- I thought this was fine, until it became apparent that they would make hundreds of millions of dollars IMMEDIATELY. They have absolutely no incentive to continue the product or work another day in their lives. A huge portion of their new found wealth doesn't have a vesting period or depend on any tangible benchmarks. Secondly, the background of Tezos is completely revised and modified according to their whims. They claim they had a large team working on the project for 4-5 years full-time. Even a cursory glance exposes that one person worked on Tezos while working full time for a major bank and that the team grew insignificantly 6-12 months before ICO. They even changed their LinkedIn profiles to revert this history. Lastly, both Arthur and his wife are completely inept socially, or knew they would get rich enough to not give a fuck. I'm not one to judge a person, but its certainly not ideal as a manager and figure-head of a billion dollar project. I didn't even think it mattered until I heard they were incredibly rude to just about everyone in their Slack channel asking the most innocuous questions. I thought it must have been one bad experience. I joined the channel and the very first few words I spoke were met by flaming from Arthur himself. Not a couple hours later, he's raging on another person in the chat room at a time when there might be 100 messages/week. Every interaction he had over the next week oscillated between flaming and get rich memes. Later they would delete channel history and eventually shut them down completely under the guise of "preventing fishing attempts", though I never saw a suspicious link anywhere. Arthur stepped down as President because of these issues, but his wife did not fare much better (although I never interacted with her directly). The ICO seemed worse than burning money. It would be like giving money to organized crime or the opposition party. IMO they have no intention of delivering anything, except maybe to save face. If the past is any indication, they don't give a shit about saving face either.

touchofevil 9y ago
I think you are incorrect about how much the Breitman's would make from the ICO. The Breitman's company DLS would get 8.5% of the ICO funds once the main net launches and then their company would also get 10% of the genesis block, but that vests over four years. So 8.5% of $232 million would be about $20 million and it's hard to say what 10% of the genesis block would be worth over the course vesting. Below are the details about the payments to the Breitmans. https://www.tezos.com/dls https://www.tezos.com/dls Payment Structure and Contrast to Common fundraising practices It has become common in fundraisers, or in token generation events (TGEs) for founders of entities selling tokens to reward themselves, in addition to their token allocation, via salaries with little or no accountability and oversight and in a manner that doesn’t reflect the viability of their product. In contrast, payments to DLS are contractually prescribed via the following criteria, which are being shared publicly and in advance of the fundraiser: No payment will be made unless and until the terms in the preceding section of this document have been met. Once met, DLS’ shareholders will receive 8.5% of the contributions made during the fundraiser. In addition, DLS’ shareholders will receive a 10% allocation of the tokens in the genesis block, placed in a smart contract that will vest monthly over a period of 48 months. These criteria represent a far more transparent and equitable reflection of the reality of the transaction.
- kirillseva 9y ago
  who controls the rest of the money? Could be the same people, just indirectly, via friends or shell companies incorporated in Switzerland
  - touchofevil 9y ago
    The ICO funds are controlled by a Swiss foundation. See my other comment in this thread regarding the board members of the Swiss foundation.
  - trhway 9y ago
    >who controls the rest of the money? Could be the same people, just indirectly, via friends or shell companies incorporated in Switzerland you're absolutely right : " The idea, according to documents on the Tezos website, was that the foundation would raise money via the ICO, then acquire DLS, the Breitman-controlled company that has been developing Tezos. " So it seems that the plan was that Breitmans would take as much money as they want (can we say "all the money"? :), and probably the foundation guy that Breitmans are fighting now did bait-and-switch reneging on the agreement to buy the company (as it would be hard to believe that even in Switzerland such agreement can exist in a legally binding form) and chose instead to have all this money to himself. $400M of free money can do that to people :)

wmf 9y ago

Primary non-paywalled source: https://medium.com/@arthurb/the-path-forward-eb2e6f63be67 https://medium.com/@arthurb/the-path-forward-eb2e6f63be67

numismatex 9y ago
Thanks for that.

dmitrygr 9y ago

I've read half the article and still don't know what a Tezos is.

numismatex 9y ago
Self-amending blockchain.
warent 9y ago
I skimmed their white paper[1] and saw this beauty: > In order to reduce uncertainty regarding the monetary mass, addresses showing no activity for over a year (as determined by timestamps) are destroyed along with the coins they contain It is, however, followed by this footnote: > (inactive addresses will no longer lose their funds after one year as initially proposed in the white paper, they will only lose their staking rights until they become active again. What it means is that if an address is inactive, it will not be selected to create blocks (which would slow down the consensus algorithm), and it will not be allowed to vote until it is reactivated (to avoid uncertainty about participation rate). 1. https://www.tezos.com/static/papers/white_paper.pdf https://www.tezos.com/static/papers/white_paper.pdf Edit: Added footnote
- SilasX 9y ago
  Yes, it's easy to penalize hoarded money. The hard part is penalizing substantively hoarded money. If I just make sham exchanges back and forth between some ring of addresses that I own, then we're right back to square one. Does it do anything to distinguish sham transactions from real ones? Or have any theory about the difference? If not, then it's not doing anything novel. (I know you're not the advocate of this, just a general reply to technical solutions to low money velocity.)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

th0br0 9y ago

Oddly enough, even Reuters picked this up: https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-funding-tezos-specialreport/special-report-backroom-battle-imperils-230-million-cryptocurrency-venture-idUKKBN1CN35K https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-funding-tezos-spec...

jacquesm 9y ago
Given the amount of money involved that's not so odd.

coldcode 9y ago

At this point I wonder if people will soon be doing ICOs and then skipping the country. Why are people investing in random things at such a ridiculous rates just because they are cryptocurrency based? You invest in things hoping it pays off for you, not handing out free "money". The Mafia must be envious.

relyio 9y ago

It's still an interesting project, even if drama like this sucks. Of course, I'd have preferred to see a technical article about the engineering backing the project. Rather than one about a bad apple making its way to a foundation board member sit and caught self-dealing by the rest of the team. But, it's not the end of the world. I hope people will move on soon. Guy was caught. He has been suspended. I guess his removal is pending modulo some legal process. That being said, I'm a bit surprised the project hasn't had much more interest from HN readers though. Why is that? It's going to be one of the largest commercial application of OCaml, alongside Jane Street's. There's lots of cool hacking going on and software engineering challenges associated to it e.g replacing wasteful Proof-of-Work with PoS, hot-swapping protocol upgrades (voted on by stakeholders) safely, figuring out constitutionalism etc. (https://github.com/tezos/tezos https://github.com/tezos/tezos). Among the thing that I'm most excited about is the inflation-funded innovation. Every voting cycle, you can submit an amendment to the protocol alongside a potential token issuance (i.e an amount of tokens that will be issued to you if the amendment is accepted). That means you get directly rewarded for the added-value you bring to the protocol. That's a great positive feedback loop. Right now, I believe that there can only be one amendment approved every cycle. So, the "great engineer quits menial technical job to work on state-of-the-art amendments to the Tezos protocol" scenario isn't quite feasible on the short term horizon. I'd wager that is a limitation that will be eventually engineered out. It has so much potential. Disclaimer: author donated to the Tezos fundraiser.

pavlov 9y ago
Do you have Tezos tokens? If so, it’s polite to disclose your stake, like on stock investment forums. Promoting an ICO that doesn’t have a shipping product is much like promoting a penny stock.
- anonyxyz 9y ago
  No one has tokens, it doesn't exist yet.
  - pavlov 9y ago

kilimchoi 9y ago

You can bypass the paywall with this link, https://outline.com/WthVfn https://outline.com/WthVfn

touchofevil 9y ago

After the ICO, I started trying to figure out who was on the board of the Tezos Foundation. I found it strange that there was very little info about who was on a three person board that controls hundreds of millions of dollars. What I found was that one person seems to be a company formation agent, Mr. Schmitz-Krummacher. Another is, Gevers, who is now being accused of self-dealing by Arthur Breitman. And the third is a virtually unknown software engineer named Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons. I'm assuming that Diego Pons is a friend of Arthur's because they are both from France and both lived in NYC. I also have a hunch that there is a secret agreement in writing in place that compels Mr. Schmitz-Krummacher to vote according to someone else's wishes, perhaps Mr. Pons. If there is such an agreement in place, hopefully Mr. Pons is staying loyal to Arthur Breitman. Handing over 200-400 Million to a three person foundation that is 1/3 company formation agent, 1/3 alleged crook, and 1/3 random software engineer seems like it may not have been the best idea after all. But the reason for this is probably to take advantage of the lack of know your customer laws in Switzerland. https://forums.tezos.community/t/who-is-running-the-tezos-foundation/649 https://forums.tezos.community/t/who-is-running-the-tezos-fo...

literallycancer 9y ago
What's the logic behind having a secret agreement in writing?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jacquesm 9y ago

Is there a list of ICO's that delivered on their initial promises (or even a substantial fraction of them)?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
wmf 9y ago
Note that very few ICOs are even a year old so even in the best case we shouldn't expect to see many successes.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Not asking for many. Asking for any.
  - atomical 9y ago
    What do you mean by initial promises? Would you accept a list of startups that have met milestones on their roadmap and have a product to demo?
kirillseva 9y ago
Ethereum has pretty much delivered on both the technical promise and financial return
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
atomical 9y ago
It requires a great deal of time and resources to develop blockchain software because everything has to be built up front. Doing an upgrade is not easy because nodes can choose not to upgrade and fork instead. Also, bugs mean people lose money and consequently faith in the project. Tezos intends to solve the contentious fork problem by incorporating the governing structure into the protocol. Whether this works better than what is currently happening in the Bitcoin community remains to be seen. Back to your initial question. Ethereum is a good example, but most of the ICO's that raised money recently won't launch until 2018-2019 at the earliest. In fact, some of them have innovation gaps. It's a long road.

hamburglar1 9y ago

Does it really take 232M to make a formally verifiable smart contract language?

atomical 9y ago
When money flows freely you raise what you can. It's more than just verifiable smart contracts though. With money comes the ability to do a lot of research and lots of independent projects. Take a look at the stuff Ethereum is researching. Watch one of Vitalik's talks on YouTube.

Animats 9y ago

Better coverage in Reuters: [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-funding-tezos-specialreport/special-report-backroom-battle-imperils-230-million-cryptocurrency-venture-idUSKBN1CN35K https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-funding-tezos-spe...

laxatives 9y ago
> The Breitmans had also hired Strange Brew Strategies, a U.S. communications company, to promote their project, and Reuters wrote a news story on May 5 about Draper’s involvement. > In pitching the story to Reuters, John O‘Brien, a principal of Strange Brew, had made claims about Tezos’ progress. He wrote: “The applications of Tezos, ranging from derivatives settlement to micro-insurance, are real and recognized by industry giants. Ernst & Young, Deloitte, LexiFi, etc. have adopted Tezos in their development environments and labs.” > On Oct. 3, a spokeswoman for the accounting firm Ernst & Young told Reuters: “The statement is not correct. EY has not adopted Tezos.” A spokesman for Deloitte said Tezos’ code is “one of many technologies we’re considering” with blockchain, but it’s “still early stage and we haven’t used the technology for a client project.” > Jean-Marc Eber, CEO of the French software company LexiFi, said, “The sentence, as stated, isn’t accurate and unfortunately exaggerated, to say the least.” While there had been “informal contacts,” he said, “at this stage, LexiFi has not adopted Tezos’ technology in its development environment or labs.” Jesus.
- Animats 9y ago
  That's grist for the SEC enforcement mill. Understand how the SEC works. They're complaint-driven. After a few "I lost money on Zowiecoin after they didn't do what they said they'd do" complaints, a case gets assigned to a staff investigator. They dig up the obvious stuff quickly, and if it looks like there's enough bad stuff, the slow process of doing something to the people behind Zowiecoin starts moving forward. The SEC announces about two enforcement actions a day. We'll start seeing SEC actions once ICOs crash and there are angry investors.

Timumba 9y ago

New messenger https://ico.echat.io/ https://ico.echat.io/ with crypto