17 ms·

> The goal is to narrow the gender wage gap. This makes the law seem even more ridiculous to me. Do we really need the government stepping into the hiring proc

> The goal is to narrow the gender wage gap. This makes the law seem even more ridiculous to me. Do we really need the government stepping into the hiring process like this and micromanaging? It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something

rconti 9y ago
Apparently, yes, as this gap has not narrowed. This seems like a very low-impact way to ensure that your past salary history is not used against you. Why should it be? And what is the burden of simply disallowing a line of questioning, with no burdensome reporting or auditing requirements?
- recursive 9y ago
  If the gap was virtually unmeasurable before, and it hasn't narrowed, it doesn't exactly seem like a case for more regulation.
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    It's weird how well-measured an "unmeasurable" value is...
rifung 9y ago
> This makes the law seem even more ridiculous to me. Why is it more ridiculous? We already have laws against discrimination based on gender. If the issue isn't being solved, while being hands off, it seems natural to try something different. > It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something Well it does seem employers are incapable of eliminating the gender wage gap so perhaps the treatment is appropriate. Not that I blame them.. being unbiased is extremely difficult and requires a conscious effort.
- syshum 9y ago
  Except for the fact that male and female pay for the same job, and experience level are statistically the same and there is no actual pay gap. The $0.79 on the $1 shit has been debunked a million times yet is still persists for some reason. The last good study I read showed a gap of something like 5% which was in the statistical margin and was largely accounted for by negotiation tactics. For an anecdote I (a male) earn less than many other men in my same job, and same experience level. Why because I am TERRIBLE at salary negotiation, (or any other price negotiation, i.e I prefer the CarMax pay what the sticker says model to the haggle over every last $1 model) At the same time, I have been involved in the hiring of both male and female employees in the IT world, never once at any time I have ever seen, heard or been a part of discussions where a person would be offered to get a lower salary simply because of their gender. Every hiring process I have ever been involved in the Pay scale is always set long before we even have any applicants. We have a budget, wages for each position are set based on the budget the gender or personal circumstances of the person have no factor in it. We have to find someone that not only fits the job requirements, but also the salary requirements. That can be a challenge, and we have had to pass on candidates simply because we could not meet their salary demands.
  - ryan_lane 9y ago
    Moving jobs is the best way to get a large pay increase, especially if you're underpaid in your current job. Once you tell them how much you currently make, you've screwed yourself. This is a negotiating tactic used by employers to know how much they'll set as their upper bound for pay. Your employer may have strict pay bounds set, but a lot of places don't. The pay can vary highly between candidates, especially if the candidates are weak negotiators. If you disclose your current salary, you're a weak negotiator, but employers put a lot of pressure on you to disclose it. I tend to tell employers that I'm not allowed to disclose my salary, which ends that part of the conversation, but most people don't know to do this. This law benefits you just as much as it does women.
    - syshum 9y ago
      I dont disagree with much of what you said, I am mainly speaking out against the pay gap myth. As far as disclosing pay, I alway deflect it and treat the question as them asking me what my salary expectations are, which likely ends up doing the same thing, but I dont think I have ever told a company what my salary was at a previous job My current employer never asked, they said "this job pays X per year" did get a small increase over that first offer but not alot. At this point in my career though (17 years in) I focus less on raw salary and more on working environment, I would rather take a lower salary to have a care free easy environment than make 15% more but have a high stress high demanding employer. Been there done that... not for me.
cortesoft 9y ago
I am curious as to why this makes it more ridiculous? If you think it is government micromanaging, wouldn't it be that no matter what issue they were trying to solve?
s73ver_ 9y ago
I don't see a problem with it. I never saw the reason why any employer needed to know what someone was paid before. A job is worth around $X to your company to be performed. What I was paid in my previous job has absolutely no bearing on that.
- cisanti 9y ago
  But you can always use it to your leverage too, I have lied about my previous salary before and it worked out great.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    I've also been told that they would verify it before, so that would be out. The law also requires that a pay range be provided by the employer upon request. I'm completely in favor of this law. Those who are strong negotiators will still be able to negotiate how they wish, and those who are in less fortunate positions won't have their pasts come back to bite them.
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    Is there any reason that you can't continue to do that?
    - astura 9y ago
      Because your current employer may report salary information to one of those data brokers like Equifax and your prospective employer requests that information for verification. Lying on a job application is a good way to get get denied the position.
  - marssaxman 9y ago
    Why should you have to do that? If they can't ask, you don't have to lie, and wouldn't that be a better world to live in?
KirinDave 9y ago
> It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something Well if the objective assessment of the evidence didn't reveal a wage gap based on gender, then maybe we could agree. But it seems, left to their own devices, many companies perpetuate the wage gap. So what this does is further increase the cost of doing already shady and illegal business by making a practice that's almost universally bad for workers anyways and made that illegal to. These laws don't result in jail, they result in fines. So it's the government engaging in it's population-mandated practice of making illegal practices more expensive.

rconti 9y ago

Apparently, yes, as this gap has not narrowed. This seems like a very low-impact way to ensure that your past salary history is not used against you. Why should it be? And what is the burden of simply disallowing a line of questioning, with no burdensome reporting or auditing requirements?

recursive 9y ago
If the gap was virtually unmeasurable before, and it hasn't narrowed, it doesn't exactly seem like a case for more regulation.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  It's weird how well-measured an "unmeasurable" value is...

rifung 9y ago

> This makes the law seem even more ridiculous to me. Why is it more ridiculous? We already have laws against discrimination based on gender. If the issue isn't being solved, while being hands off, it seems natural to try something different. > It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something Well it does seem employers are incapable of eliminating the gender wage gap so perhaps the treatment is appropriate. Not that I blame them.. being unbiased is extremely difficult and requires a conscious effort.

syshum 9y ago
Except for the fact that male and female pay for the same job, and experience level are statistically the same and there is no actual pay gap. The $0.79 on the $1 shit has been debunked a million times yet is still persists for some reason. The last good study I read showed a gap of something like 5% which was in the statistical margin and was largely accounted for by negotiation tactics. For an anecdote I (a male) earn less than many other men in my same job, and same experience level. Why because I am TERRIBLE at salary negotiation, (or any other price negotiation, i.e I prefer the CarMax pay what the sticker says model to the haggle over every last $1 model) At the same time, I have been involved in the hiring of both male and female employees in the IT world, never once at any time I have ever seen, heard or been a part of discussions where a person would be offered to get a lower salary simply because of their gender. Every hiring process I have ever been involved in the Pay scale is always set long before we even have any applicants. We have a budget, wages for each position are set based on the budget the gender or personal circumstances of the person have no factor in it. We have to find someone that not only fits the job requirements, but also the salary requirements. That can be a challenge, and we have had to pass on candidates simply because we could not meet their salary demands.
- ryan_lane 9y ago
  Moving jobs is the best way to get a large pay increase, especially if you're underpaid in your current job. Once you tell them how much you currently make, you've screwed yourself. This is a negotiating tactic used by employers to know how much they'll set as their upper bound for pay. Your employer may have strict pay bounds set, but a lot of places don't. The pay can vary highly between candidates, especially if the candidates are weak negotiators. If you disclose your current salary, you're a weak negotiator, but employers put a lot of pressure on you to disclose it. I tend to tell employers that I'm not allowed to disclose my salary, which ends that part of the conversation, but most people don't know to do this. This law benefits you just as much as it does women.
  - syshum 9y ago
    I dont disagree with much of what you said, I am mainly speaking out against the pay gap myth. As far as disclosing pay, I alway deflect it and treat the question as them asking me what my salary expectations are, which likely ends up doing the same thing, but I dont think I have ever told a company what my salary was at a previous job My current employer never asked, they said "this job pays X per year" did get a small increase over that first offer but not alot. At this point in my career though (17 years in) I focus less on raw salary and more on working environment, I would rather take a lower salary to have a care free easy environment than make 15% more but have a high stress high demanding employer. Been there done that... not for me.

cortesoft 9y ago

I am curious as to why this makes it more ridiculous? If you think it is government micromanaging, wouldn't it be that no matter what issue they were trying to solve?

s73ver_ 9y ago

I don't see a problem with it. I never saw the reason why any employer needed to know what someone was paid before. A job is worth around $X to your company to be performed. What I was paid in my previous job has absolutely no bearing on that.

cisanti 9y ago
But you can always use it to your leverage too, I have lied about my previous salary before and it worked out great.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  I've also been told that they would verify it before, so that would be out. The law also requires that a pay range be provided by the employer upon request. I'm completely in favor of this law. Those who are strong negotiators will still be able to negotiate how they wish, and those who are in less fortunate positions won't have their pasts come back to bite them.
- CaptSpify 9y ago
  Is there any reason that you can't continue to do that?
  - astura 9y ago
    Because your current employer may report salary information to one of those data brokers like Equifax and your prospective employer requests that information for verification. Lying on a job application is a good way to get get denied the position.
- marssaxman 9y ago
  Why should you have to do that? If they can't ask, you don't have to lie, and wouldn't that be a better world to live in?

KirinDave 9y ago

> It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something Well if the objective assessment of the evidence didn't reveal a wage gap based on gender, then maybe we could agree. But it seems, left to their own devices, many companies perpetuate the wage gap. So what this does is further increase the cost of doing already shady and illegal business by making a practice that's almost universally bad for workers anyways and made that illegal to. These laws don't result in jail, they result in fines. So it's the government engaging in it's population-mandated practice of making illegal practices more expensive.