5 ms·

Any time you apply for a credit card or other form of credit, you generally have to give your income.

gfosco 9y ago
It's much worse than that... The recent "The Work Number" incident showed they shared access to your entire paycheck history, in detail.
- wavefunction 9y ago
  at the granular level of per paycheck, even
  - ericd 9y ago
    So they're buying it from ADP?
    - falcolas 9y ago
      Or getting it automatically from the employers in exchange for having access to it for new hires.
      - ericd 9y ago
        I doubt most employers would go for that, but I suppose it's possible. More importantly, though, it'd also be much harder than getting it from a payroll provider.
        gehwartzen 9y ago
        According to wiki they have 225 million employment records and according to The Work Number they are used by 82% of Fortune 500 employers. Then they turn around and sell all that data while telling the participating companies what a wonderful service they are providing them by offloading this task from traditional HR. It's crazy.
        ericd 9y ago
        Oh, wow, that is crazy.
        gehwartzen 9y ago
        Prepare to be even more shocked. Here is a 'sample' of the EDR report you can request from The Work Number containing all the information that they have on you and may or may not be giving out (or selling to the highest bidder): https://www.theworknumber.com/samples/The-Work-Number-Employment-Data-Report-EFX-WS-0205-11-21-14.pdf https://www.theworknumber.com/samples/The-Work-Number-Employ... As you can see its much more than 'just' your salary. It includes (amongst other things): Union Affiliation; Salary breakdown (Base, OT, Commission, Bonus); Dates of pay increases; Medical Insurance (coverage, Policy #, Provider name, Annual cost); Any Workers Comp claims; Breakdown of your paycheck (401k contribution, taxes payed, garnishments, etc) Just imagine the national outrage if some employer was shown to be directly selling this information to someone about their own employees. Yet a third party is doing just that and many companies are complicit. It is absolutely outrageous! 'hmmm maybe I don't want to hire Joe Shmo, after all he did join a union in the past. He might try to unionize our plant' 'looks like Joe also has some garnishments, doesn't sound like someone we want on our team. Probably has a troubled past.' 'well looks like Joe made 70k last year, but a lot of that was from working OT. I think we can get away with offering him 60k and promising him a lot of OT "opportunities"'
majormajor 9y ago
Proving my income (with paystubs or a W2) separately from the credit report the bank ran always gave me the impression that the credit agencies didn't have that info. Nor do I ever recall seeing it in the reports I got from them. Welp.
rconti 9y ago
I've only given fairly vague numbers on these things. Can't say it's hurt my creditworthiness.
- ryanlol 9y ago
  You don't need to be honest in your applications, just consistent. The data you enter becomes "the truth" in their system.
pravda 9y ago
>you generally have to give your income. Well, you certainly don't have to give your "real" income. Aspirational income is fine.
- chc 9y ago
  Wouldn't applying for credit based on "aspirational" finances be fraud?
  - ada1981 9y ago
    It generally asked your household income. This means many 18 year olds can report 6 or even 7 figure household incomes.
    - chc 9y ago
      I wouldn't call that an aspirational income, though — would you? That's just your real household income. It's also not an option for most adults, who are almost all older than 18.
    - darklajid 9y ago
      Putting aside the household income for a moment: "Many" being able to report 6 figure incomes seems quiiiiite a stretch to me, 7 seems insane. Do you have a source for this? Or can you define "many" some more?
      - sokoloff 9y ago
        A million or more 18-20 year olds could no doubt truthfully report 6-figure household income. To me, that's "many". (Slightly over a quarter of households in the US have a household income over $100K as reported on tax returns. Household income for the purposes of credit application can be meaningfully higher than for adjusted gross income tax return concerns.)
        mmcclellan 9y ago

It's much worse than that... The recent "The Work Number" incident showed they shared access to your entire paycheck history, in detail.

wavefunction 9y ago
at the granular level of per paycheck, even
- ericd 9y ago
  So they're buying it from ADP?
  - falcolas 9y ago
    Or getting it automatically from the employers in exchange for having access to it for new hires.
    - ericd 9y ago
      I doubt most employers would go for that, but I suppose it's possible. More importantly, though, it'd also be much harder than getting it from a payroll provider.
      - gehwartzen 9y ago
        According to wiki they have 225 million employment records and according to The Work Number they are used by 82% of Fortune 500 employers. Then they turn around and sell all that data while telling the participating companies what a wonderful service they are providing them by offloading this task from traditional HR. It's crazy.
        ericd 9y ago
        Oh, wow, that is crazy.
        gehwartzen 9y ago
        Prepare to be even more shocked. Here is a 'sample' of the EDR report you can request from The Work Number containing all the information that they have on you and may or may not be giving out (or selling to the highest bidder): https://www.theworknumber.com/samples/The-Work-Number-Employment-Data-Report-EFX-WS-0205-11-21-14.pdf https://www.theworknumber.com/samples/The-Work-Number-Employ... As you can see its much more than 'just' your salary. It includes (amongst other things): Union Affiliation; Salary breakdown (Base, OT, Commission, Bonus); Dates of pay increases; Medical Insurance (coverage, Policy #, Provider name, Annual cost); Any Workers Comp claims; Breakdown of your paycheck (401k contribution, taxes payed, garnishments, etc) Just imagine the national outrage if some employer was shown to be directly selling this information to someone about their own employees. Yet a third party is doing just that and many companies are complicit. It is absolutely outrageous! 'hmmm maybe I don't want to hire Joe Shmo, after all he did join a union in the past. He might try to unionize our plant' 'looks like Joe also has some garnishments, doesn't sound like someone we want on our team. Probably has a troubled past.' 'well looks like Joe made 70k last year, but a lot of that was from working OT. I think we can get away with offering him 60k and promising him a lot of OT "opportunities"'

majormajor 9y ago

Proving my income (with paystubs or a W2) separately from the credit report the bank ran always gave me the impression that the credit agencies didn't have that info. Nor do I ever recall seeing it in the reports I got from them. Welp.

rconti 9y ago

I've only given fairly vague numbers on these things. Can't say it's hurt my creditworthiness.

ryanlol 9y ago
You don't need to be honest in your applications, just consistent. The data you enter becomes "the truth" in their system.

pravda 9y ago

>you generally have to give your income. Well, you certainly don't have to give your "real" income. Aspirational income is fine.

chc 9y ago
Wouldn't applying for credit based on "aspirational" finances be fraud?
- ada1981 9y ago
  It generally asked your household income. This means many 18 year olds can report 6 or even 7 figure household incomes.
  - chc 9y ago
    I wouldn't call that an aspirational income, though — would you? That's just your real household income. It's also not an option for most adults, who are almost all older than 18.
  - darklajid 9y ago
    Putting aside the household income for a moment: "Many" being able to report 6 figure incomes seems quiiiiite a stretch to me, 7 seems insane. Do you have a source for this? Or can you define "many" some more?
    - sokoloff 9y ago
      A million or more 18-20 year olds could no doubt truthfully report 6-figure household income. To me, that's "many". (Slightly over a quarter of households in the US have a household income over $100K as reported on tax returns. Household income for the purposes of credit application can be meaningfully higher than for adjusted gross income tax return concerns.)
      - mmcclellan 9y ago