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Why stop there? There's tons of progressive bias as well. I don't know if it's a matter of progressive influence from the inside or fear of becoming the newest

Why stop there? There's tons of progressive bias as well. I don't know if it's a matter of progressive influence from the inside or fear of becoming the newest target of a progressive revolt that causes the major media outlets to toe the progressive line, but progressive bias seems at least as strong as pro-USG or pro-corporate bias. Maybe my vantage point is distorted/limited?

r00fus 9y ago
What do you mean by progressive bias? corporate vs. normal people is orthogonal the progressive vs. conservative. Think of it as a separate axis.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > corporate vs. normal people is orthogonal the progressive vs. conservative. No, it's not. Both are about flattening of power distribution vs. concentration of power distribution.
  - nate_meurer 9y ago
    Progressive and conservative are an odd nomenclature nowadays. Both "sides" have large populist elements that share a hatred (and conspiratorial paranoia) of globalism and "the elites". In this respect, ANTIFA and alt-right white-nationalists have a lot more in common than they'll admit.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      That white nationalists (at the grassroots, even before considering what ends they might be being manipulated to serve) are about concentrating power in a specific subgroup rather than distributing it in an egalitarian manner is, well, painfully obvious from their overt label. It's true that just as both those seeking a broader distribution of power and those seeking to move it from the aristocracy to the mercantile class shared a small degree of common interest in the downfall of feudalism, the anarchocommunists and other leftists at the heart of Antifa and the White Nationalists in Trump's base might have something of a common opponent in at least some segment of the current cosmopolitan corporate elite, but that is a weak and transitory common interest, and their general interests are fundamentally in near-polar opposition.
      - nate_meurer 9y ago
        There is no contradiction between the desire to achieve a flatter distribution of power, while also concentrate it in a specific subgroup. It's exactly these things that are the goals of Steve Bannon's wing of the right. The commonality between the anti-fascists (or whatever they want to call themselves) and white-nationalists is neither weak nor transitory. Their common enemy is liberal democracy, and their preferred strongmen will not always necessarily be different. Take a glance at places like Serbia and Russia to see this in action. Back to the original point though, I think progressive vs conservative is not a useful basis with which to analyze these movements.
  - weberc2 9y ago
    Progressives are at war with everyone rather equally; so I don't see the utility in insisting on a unidimensional axis. They claim to be opposed to white nationalists specifically, but then they go on to categorize literally everything to their right (including liberalism) as white supremacy. And I say "equally" because progressives spend more time criticizing moderates than the extreme right. Further, I question the sincerity of the progressive commitment to equality, since the mob comes after anyone who points to data that don't support their apocalyptic narrative.
- weberc2 9y ago
  Well, we were naming axes, weren't we? Government bias is a different axis from corporate bias from left/right political bias. It's odd to classify the first two as valid but not the last. If the problem is media distortion, it seems to me that progressive distortion is far greater than pro-business or pro-government distortion. I think we can agree that this much is true regardless of our opinions about how harmful each of these biases are.
  - abiox 9y ago
    > it seems to me that progressive distortion is far greater than pro-business or pro-government distortion i don't know that these are directly comparable. it's like comparing a car's length to a truck's height. there may be some correlation, but they are distinct things.
    - weberc2 9y ago
      You can compare a car's length to a truck's height; the units work out--whether or not its useful to do so is a different story (if you're playing tetris with cars and trucks, it might be very useful!). In particular, we can (and probably do) measure the magnitudes of the media's biases (pro-business, pro-government, progressive) and compare them, and it's very useful, for example, if you care about media bias and want to know what kind of pressure to apply to get the most bang for your finite political capital.

r00fus 9y ago

What do you mean by progressive bias? corporate vs. normal people is orthogonal the progressive vs. conservative. Think of it as a separate axis.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> corporate vs. normal people is orthogonal the progressive vs. conservative. No, it's not. Both are about flattening of power distribution vs. concentration of power distribution.
- nate_meurer 9y ago
  Progressive and conservative are an odd nomenclature nowadays. Both "sides" have large populist elements that share a hatred (and conspiratorial paranoia) of globalism and "the elites". In this respect, ANTIFA and alt-right white-nationalists have a lot more in common than they'll admit.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    That white nationalists (at the grassroots, even before considering what ends they might be being manipulated to serve) are about concentrating power in a specific subgroup rather than distributing it in an egalitarian manner is, well, painfully obvious from their overt label. It's true that just as both those seeking a broader distribution of power and those seeking to move it from the aristocracy to the mercantile class shared a small degree of common interest in the downfall of feudalism, the anarchocommunists and other leftists at the heart of Antifa and the White Nationalists in Trump's base might have something of a common opponent in at least some segment of the current cosmopolitan corporate elite, but that is a weak and transitory common interest, and their general interests are fundamentally in near-polar opposition.
    - nate_meurer 9y ago
      There is no contradiction between the desire to achieve a flatter distribution of power, while also concentrate it in a specific subgroup. It's exactly these things that are the goals of Steve Bannon's wing of the right. The commonality between the anti-fascists (or whatever they want to call themselves) and white-nationalists is neither weak nor transitory. Their common enemy is liberal democracy, and their preferred strongmen will not always necessarily be different. Take a glance at places like Serbia and Russia to see this in action. Back to the original point though, I think progressive vs conservative is not a useful basis with which to analyze these movements.
- weberc2 9y ago
  Progressives are at war with everyone rather equally; so I don't see the utility in insisting on a unidimensional axis. They claim to be opposed to white nationalists specifically, but then they go on to categorize literally everything to their right (including liberalism) as white supremacy. And I say "equally" because progressives spend more time criticizing moderates than the extreme right. Further, I question the sincerity of the progressive commitment to equality, since the mob comes after anyone who points to data that don't support their apocalyptic narrative.
weberc2 9y ago
Well, we were naming axes, weren't we? Government bias is a different axis from corporate bias from left/right political bias. It's odd to classify the first two as valid but not the last. If the problem is media distortion, it seems to me that progressive distortion is far greater than pro-business or pro-government distortion. I think we can agree that this much is true regardless of our opinions about how harmful each of these biases are.
- abiox 9y ago
  > it seems to me that progressive distortion is far greater than pro-business or pro-government distortion i don't know that these are directly comparable. it's like comparing a car's length to a truck's height. there may be some correlation, but they are distinct things.
  - weberc2 9y ago
    You can compare a car's length to a truck's height; the units work out--whether or not its useful to do so is a different story (if you're playing tetris with cars and trucks, it might be very useful!). In particular, we can (and probably do) measure the magnitudes of the media's biases (pro-business, pro-government, progressive) and compare them, and it's very useful, for example, if you care about media bias and want to know what kind of pressure to apply to get the most bang for your finite political capital.