>though every group that has successfully established a government (whether or not they had a utopian vision) has employed violence Counter example: the peacef

>though every group that has successfully established a government (whether or not they had a utopian vision) has employed violence Counter example: the peaceful handoff of Hong Kong between the U.K and China - they managed to create a government in Hong Kong without any violence. >widely divergent ideologies if it were true The ideologies aren't wildly divergent in the dimensions of interest: 1) utopian idealism 2) willigness to use violence though I repeat myself.