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Why You Can Focus in a Coffee Shop but Not in Your Open Office
- iluvmylife 9y agoI have founds apps like Coffitivity [0] that simulate coffee shop banter extremely helpul with my productivity. [0] https://coffitivity.com/ https://coffitivity.com/
- fractal618 9y agomusic without lyrics. i decided to pay for google play music, it's probably my favorite paid service since i got it almost a year ago. cmd.fm and jamendo are also pretty fantastic
- timgebrally 9y ago"God is an Astronaut" radio on Google Play music makes for great concentration music.
- squeaky-clean 9y agoI originally found this link on the HN front page years ago and have kept it bookmarked. It's got lots of good suggestions like this. The comments on the post have great suggestions too. https://zach-adams.com/2014/05/music-to-listen-to-while-coding/ https://zach-adams.com/2014/05/music-to-listen-to-while-codi...
- Anthony-G 9y agoThanks for that link. I already listen to half the artists mentioned in the article, so I’m interested in checking out the others. I only recently discovered Tycho (who sound very similar to Ulrich Schnauss) while God is an Astronaut (along with Mogwai) have been on my play-list for the past decade or so. I’d also recommend minimal techno and the second wave of Detroit (Carl Craig, Kenny Larkin, etc.). I spend a lot of time listening to Warp records from the 90s. When I really need to get stuff done, I reach for Fuck Buttons (best listened to with a player capable of gap-less playback).
- Ar-Curunir 9y agoPost Rock in general is fantastic for this kind of stuff
- kristofferR 9y agoThe problem with Google Play Music, Spotify and similar services is that you must select the music, which can be incredibly distracting in itself. I like music radio stations better in that regard. Digitally Imported (https://di.fm https://di.fm) is a fantastic voice-free radio network with over 300 channels/genres [1] for every kind of music (electronic, rock, pop, jazz etc). I use it every day, it's hard to not be productive while listening to their Goa-Psy channel [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitally_Imported https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitally_Imported [2] https://www.di.fm/goapsy https://www.di.fm/goapsy
- ryanx435 9y agothis is.. interesting. I work from home so I started playing it to see how it sounded. Immediately I felt more relaxed with it on. I'm not sure if this is a good thing, or a bad thing. I probably need to get out more. Maybe I should work from coffee shops more often instead of from my home office?
- imron 9y agoI can't focus on programming work in a coffee shop either.
- craftyguy 9y agoI focus best when listening to black metal, the actual setting doesn't matter so much.
- marssaxman 9y agoFor me it has long been psytrance, but I'm sure it is the same principle.
- immutable_ai 9y agoNile is great for this
- dredmorbius 9y agoConvos in coffee shops don't, generally, have the ability to affect yor task, position, employment, or career. Convos in offices do. You attune highly to the latter with reason.
- tome 9y agoNot to mention that neither do any people who glance over at you have the ability to affect your task, position, employment, or career.
- dredmorbius 9y agoThat being my point.
- maxxxxx 9y agoI am actually ok with overhearing stuff that's relevant. It's the irrelevant stuff that kills me. I have some neighbors who can talk for hours about cars, movies and whatever. There is a good chance that I will never have anything work related to do with these guys but I have to listen to these intense discussions for hours. Also the background noise: It always amazes me when power fails once a year how quiet and peaceful the whole place gets. You get used to the constant noise and only when it's really quiet you realize how stressful it is.
- dredmorbius 9y agoGood point. In a coffeeshop, those conversations are less likely to be repeated day in and day out, and if sufficiently annoying, you can choose to be elsewhere. In an office, you're stuck with the situation, and can do little about it.
- Ajedi32 9y agoFor me it's not about the noise, it's about whether or not the noise is in fact, just noise, or if it's interesting enough to draw my attention. Random conversation in a coffee shop or cafeteria? No problem. People discussing the latest episode of my favorite TV show? Distracting. Instrumental music, or songs I've heard a million times before? Just noise. A new song with interesting lyrics, or a personal favorite I've been really into lately? Distracting.
- imglorp 9y agoCoworkers discussing an issue I'm working on? Super distracting.
- wccrawford 9y agoDiscussing anything, for me. I never know if it's something I should be listening to or not. It might become important. Now, since my solution is to shut my door, you'd think I could just say, "Yup, nothing matters" and ignore it. But it just doesn't work that way.
- tclancy 9y agoRight, it's whether or not I can put the conversation into a context. If not, it's just noise. If I can organize it or think about how accurate the information is, you have my un-un-divided attention.
- pavel_lishin 9y agoIdeally, if it's something important to you, your coworkers should get your attention, or at least communicate the results of their discussion to you. But I realize that this is supposing two idealized coworkers in a perfect vacuum.
- abainbridge 9y agoIn the open office environment I used to work in I got quite good at ignoring coworkers discussions about stuff they were working on. But as they crammed more and more people into the building, the probability of being within earshot of multiple discussions at once went up. I could sit in my chair getting angry when there was only two. When it got to three concurrent discussions I found I had to leave the vicinity. Some people could ignore it all. Impressive.
- NumberSix 9y agoPeople vary. I find it quite difficult to work effectively in an open office. Coffee shops are often better but not that great. I find either total silence or soft instrumental music is usually best for me. Some people seem to enjoy open offices although I suspect their work is different and does not require the same level of deep concentration. The obvious solution is to allow people to select the office environment that works best for them: office, cubicle, open area etc. instead of imposing a one size fits all "solution" from above.
- megaman22 9y agoWorking from home is friction-free, and most productive. Coming to the office and working in my private office, if nobody else is in the building, comes second. Working in my office at the office in a normal day when everybody is there, I can maybe get an hour or two of real work done in an eight hour day. If I had to work in an open office, I'd give myself maybe three days before I was doing things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLdAVdc4luE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLdAVdc4luE
- tritium 9y agoThe power differential implicit in the voice of managers. The competitive aspect of operating alongside co-workers. The fairness of slacking off, letting one's mind wander, contemplating a hard problem while staring off into space and refraining from typing at a keyboard, maybe running late in the mornings, versus doing "real" work, ass in chair, on time, contributing ideas in meetings and phone calls, producing visible progress... Whether or not people (who can affect your ability to put a roof over your head) ARE NOTICING YOUR EVERY MOVE. This is what an open office is does to me. The anxiety induced by others, and their potential for influencing where the rubber meets the road.
- ufmace 9y agoI'm pretty sure that much anxiety isn't normal or healthy. I hope you can find some help for it.
- electrichead 9y agoI think that sometimes depends on the work culture rather than a person's personality. I've worked at places where managers do monitor your every move, look at how long you take at lunch, etc. Also co-workers sometimes think unfavourably of you if they think you are not pulling your weight even if you spend more time thinking than coding. Let's not jump to conclusions.
- megaman22 9y agoThis is perfectly normal if you're in a toxic micromanaging environment. The open office is the panopticon.
- antris 9y agoI have this. It got so bad I had to quit work two years ago. After medication and therapy, I still can't work without getting panic attacks. I'm really frustrated and don't know what to do..
- trhway 9y agocome work to BigCo (not FB nor AMZN though) where people are more diverse by age, not just a bunch of youngsters (who have nothing except the work and who is able to sit staring into monitor for 12 hours straight and have that collective herd - "team" - mentality that everybody should behave the same, "pull their weight", etc. - was myself that way just 15 years ago) In an age diverse environment people have children, lives, businesses, habits, and don't care that much about their own or your job, etc. There is no way the manager (who has all that himself) can make those people work even 8 hours in the office. In official language it is called life-work balance :) Also, (IANAL nor MD) i think at any workplace you can ask for a reasonable accommodation if you have that medical paperwork stating that open office causes anxiety to the level of disability. Even without paperwork i think you can just ask for it at many places. For example, we have a cluster of several cubicles on one end of our floor, and some of them are permanently assigned to some employees (I got offered one too because i was b!tching too much and loud about our open office - i declined in order to avoid getting too comfortable and losing that minimal drive that i still have to change the job :)
- interfixus 9y agoThis penchant for working in 'coffee shops' or other public spaces always leaves me utterly mystified. What on Earth could be the point, instead of going home, or to some library in a pinch? Says the attention deficited introvert in his very quiet house far, far out in the boondocks.
- mbrameld 9y agoDifferent people are different. Mystery solved.
- cr1895 9y ago>What on Earth could be the point, instead of going home, or to some library in a pinch? To keep home and work separate. Maybe working from home for some is perceived as never leaving work.
- jameskegel 9y ago>working from home for some is perceived as never leaving work That's a glass half-full/half-empty approach; conversely, I end up being more productive, working more minutes, taking less breaks to socialize/browse. One benefit I didn't recognize immediately is that I gained valuable time by being able to eat at my own pace, often while working, rather than worrying about a sustenance/obligations time management equation with my lunch break every day when I should be working. I no longer wake up dreading going to work. I get to get up at a normal hour, feed the family every meal, and spend about an hour every morning reading. A more convenient workplace, for me, does not exist; people are different. Every day feels like hours have been added to my life.
- sotojuan 9y agoHa, finally someone that agrees with me. Though not everyone has quietude in their home, I dislike it when I visit a coffee shop and everyone is working or doing meetings.
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- osrec 9y agoI think it's more about being on display. In an open office you are on show and must look like you're working. This is hugely counter-productive, as you can't even have a comfortable "pause for thought" without someone assuming you're taking it easy! I remember feeling super tense at my desk because of this expectation to look busy. In a coffee shop, you can be more relaxed, enjoy the environment, enjoy the hustle and bustle and dip in and out of intense concentration without caring who's judging you. It's just a more natural way to be and allows you to think clearly with a nice rhythm. Needless to say, I have spent a number of very productive hours in the coffee shops of London!
- Cthulhu_ 9y agoI've had this experience last week, when we went to work in a hackerspace of sorts - just desks for rent in an open office space. It was relatively quiet because most people were just working on their own shit, and any conversation at another table (if there was any) was simply not relevant to what you were doing.
- post_break 9y agoYou know what makes me work even harder in a coffee shop? Leave your charger at home. You suddenly become more efficient since you know your time is limited. Assuming you're not on a thinkpad with a 9 cell battery.
- l5870uoo9y 9y agoDid this the other day and I had a productive 4-5 hours and called it a day. Was actually somewhat relived - as a freelancer - that my work day had a fixed limit after which you justifiable had to stop. Like leaving school in your childhood without the slightest concern.
- 3pt14159 9y agoFor me it's being on an airplane. The lack of wifi means I just stub things out as "TODO" when I don't know how to do them and move on. Then when I land I have a bunch of simple / googlable TODOs to knock off.
- DerfNet 9y agoAs a T420 owner who can barely make it through a 2 hour movie on my 9 cell battery, this comment is confusing.
- post_break 9y agoX230 here, usually get 7 hours no problem.
- spicytunacone 9y agoThis was similar to the approach I took early last year where I would go in 7 days a week but only spend 3-4 hours (conveniently the length of my charge) programming and sketching solutions. Interviewers wanted to laugh when I brought it up, but I really did find it productive. I'd leave the day stuck on some tasks, go about the rest of my day (outside the 3-4 hours) thinking about it and maybe quickly skimming docs when I wasn't doing anything else. At the start of the next day I easily banged out decent, working solutions in the first 30 minutes. I guess social pressure won out in the end when even people close to me thought I wasn't doing anything. So finding myself in a similar situation to then, I stay for a few more hours (a little over the length of a charge and recharging to full; I don't take lunch breaks myself). I probably am more productive overall, but there's lots of factors to take into account (hopefully I got more skilled) and I'd say the biggest change is the more creative processes occuring in situ rather than strewn about the day. I also check my e-mails a little more often now ;-).
- ssharp 9y agoI have a harder time focusing in coffee shops than I do in open offices. Coffee shop noises are not really "background noises" for me. The noises I hear tend to be the people talking loudly that stick out, the people munching on food, and the people slurping coffee loudly. There are also visual distractions like people coming and going. I think libraries offer a far better trade off between being somewhere public and being free from many noises.
- l5870uoo9y 9y agoDepending on the cafe, in Berlin many of the hippest coffee roasteries blast out loud techno.
- ssijak 9y agoThat sounds great
- itomato 9y agoI don't need the HBR to tell me strangers are easier to filter. A coffee shop is (usually) a threat-free environment; free of sudden power struggle, simply because I am effectively "alone".
- itsdrewmiller 9y agoThe first study at least looks like a prime candidate for the replication crisis - lots of different combinations of parameters, some of which are just barely statistically significant (and others that are not).
- abecedarius 9y agoThe summary article did not tell us the measured effect size, either. I'd hope the actual paper did, though it's not something you can depend on (sheesh).
- Shivetya 9y agoOne disturbing event where I am is there are plans afoot to remodel the developer floors to remove the upper cubicle storage areas. Not quite a open floor plan but it removes what privacy developers do have. It had been done in a support areas because of managers who wanted to "check on who was where" and such. unless an open office plan includes the management all it does is further enforce the power structure in place. first people offices to cubicles, but that became acceptable because you still had the walls to give you defined space, now that those go it is the last bastion where you can be isolated is lost.
- 52-6F-62 9y agoWe got kind of lucky at my office. Our floors missed the big sweep the last CEO was doing to make everything open office. They apparently hit some floors in this building and did a sort of halfway job with it to poor effect. I've been to another building where they finished and it's nice, but seems a little tense. Walking through there for meetings garners stares from everybody working in the area. I still have something like this, Herman Miller cube with an extra moveable privacy wall out of the way of main traffic. After this thread it's feeling like a bit of heaven. It has an additional cupboard and garment locker to my left and a rolling, padded stool, drawer set. Ample desk space and modular shelving units. I'm spoiled, apparently. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/06/32/b0/0632b0ce27c7d245fa6ca378ef325d20--office-cubicles-small-office.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/06/32/b0/0632b0ce27c7d245fa6ca378e...
- ccleary00 9y agoI've found being able to migrate from coffee shop to coffee shop is very effective in helping me get unstuck from problems. Not sure if it's the 15 minute break that comes with traveling to another shop or if it's the change of scenery and atmosphere, but it really does the trick.
- swvjeff 9y agoI do the same and it really helps my productivity. I have no clue why it actually works, but I've been using the strategy successfully for a few years now. I always suggest the idea to a coworker if they're stuck on a problem or find themselves unmotivated.
- pjmlp 9y agoI don't get the Open Office hate, given that our universities and most of the companies only use this kind of concept. The only issue is having quite places for the meetings.
- thevardanian 9y agoI hate when other people watch me work. Always have.
- Zanta 9y agoThe open office from which I type this is usually quiet. Three of my neighboring co-workers have chronic coughs, throat clearing, and hacks. I wear earplugs inside can headphones that are on all day, and still, it's excruciatingly distracting. I would pay several thousand dollars a year to never hear them cough again.
- goialoq 9y agoWhat part of the world are you in?
- pjmlp 9y agoEurope, open offices are quite common office layout in the countries I lived so far. Offices tend to be only for bosses, or mini-open office with 3 to 4 desks.
- megaman22 9y agoIn university, if you were going to go and get some serious work done, it was generally accepted that you went and hid in the stacks in the bowels of the library, or some other hidey-hole where it was quiet and people wouldn't find you or bother you. One of the best perks of having a work-study job doing maintenance and AV stuff was having a set of keys that allowed getting into out-of-the-way places so you could post up with your tote bag of sources and grind out term papers.
- pjmlp 9y agoWe didn't had such privileges. The library only had books, laptops were out of reach for most pockets and the computer labs had about 20 PCs per room.
- subcosmos 9y agoCaffeine
- gist 9y agoIt's more than getting drawn into conversations. In a different place, where you don't know anyone, it is also more likely that you will not be annoyed by someone that you have a history with with simply hearing their voice. So merely noticing the sound of 'johns' voice is enough to set you and distract and/or bother. But if you don't know 'john' it's simply not the same impact. An similar example would be my reaction to leaf blowers or lawn mowers outside my office. When they come I am always annoyed and bothered. However equally disturbing or loud (if you want to call it that) noises I typically don't care about. It's the 'hear it goes again!' that makes it (to me at least) disturbing.
- danohu 9y ago"But new research shows that it may not be the sound itself that distracts us…it may be who is making it." For me, the absolute perfect background noise is people talking in a language I don't understand. If you're in a big city, there are almost certainly cafes with customers mainly from some linguistic minority -- I've found them to be great places to work. [on roughly the same principle, I sometimes listen to foreign-language pop music while working, so the vocal aspect becomes just another instrument rather than a source of distraction]
- miek 9y agoI do the exact same - listen to foreign music. I can't listen to truly interesting instrumental music because it's distracting, and music with too much emotion grabs too much of my attention. I'll add: I do well with progressive electronic music that doesn't have much going on in it, and some sci-fi movie soundtracks. Additionally, Deuter is great, and his entire catalog is on Spotify.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- romanovcode 9y agoAt office I have - Air humidifier - Boose QC35 - 27 inch 4k monitor - Mechanical keyboard - Gaming mouspad + gaming mouse - Huge desk I seriously don't get why would anyone go to coffee shops to work. Seems totally counter-intuitive to me. Staring at 13 inch screen without mouse and using not-so-good keyboard seems just waste of my time. Not to mention small tables they have there.
- in9 9y agoI go to coffee shops usually when I have to: - just focus on some non coding task (presentation, report, or what ever) - focus on a single problem - code something from scratch All those are slightly easier when I don't have a huge screen, or the fastest internet (or some barrier to using the internet), or the perfect chair.
- spicytunacone 9y agoI can luckily do everything I need to on the same laptop I cut my teeth for my degree on. Thankfully no chiclet keys and I have a working track point. It's even easily user servicible, I have replaced the keyboard once already with cheap parts from eBay. I guess I'm lucky I don't need massive power to still run most things I work with natively, but if you mostly work in the commandline it wouldn't be a nightmare to ssh/mosh in wherever you need to. After that I get to enjoy working in a Linux desktop environment with all its programmability and keyboard shortcuts go a long way. I've never known an environment like the one you describe, but it may surprise you that a relatively luddite setup can go a long way once you're accustomed to it.
- Mz 9y agoFor me, it also made me uncomfortably aware of office politics and other crap of that sort. So, it made me very aware that, no, people were not being treated fairly. This is a thing that very much grates on me and made me feel personally threatened. I have a strong sense of fairness. My inability to shut this stuff out was a source of personal aggravation that helped me decide I did not wish to be there long term.
- logingone 9y agoFor me it's the jarring noise. A coffeeshop tends to have consistent levels of muddied noise, whereas the office might be quiet and then suddenly a clear, loud voice starts, and another couple of clear, loud voices arrive - jarring. Also, office lights are too bright, they switch me off somehow. Then the erratic temperature - freezing for a couple of hours, then tropical for a few, then back to icy. The office is, ironically, the worst possible environment for getting any work done.
- rjplatte 9y agoTo me, this has always been a matter of my attention filter. If I'm in an environment where my attention is being pulled to various snatches of conversation, all of which have some tiny detail that I notice, my focus will invariably suffer. In a coffeeshop, almost nobody says anything that triggers that filter, thereby letting me block out that noise more effectively.
- abhgh 9y agoFor me, I think, the primary reason an open office often doesn't work (I say 'often' because sometimes it does) is that being physically and visibly present seems to signal that you are available for answering sporadic queries from others. Interruptions are hard to entertain when your work demands focused time-chunks. No one knows me (enough to disturb me) at a coffee-shop. I can tune out conversations, even if the participants are people I know. A good headset comes in handy too. I agree with the article in that some noise level helps. In fact I'd go so far as to say occasional human interactions help - it has the effect of drawing your mind out of the details of a problem and drop it back in from a high altitude (when you re-engage after the interaction), which is a process that aids problem-solving. Fun anecdotal "evidence": there was this exam I was preparing for, for months, and then my brother informed me that he will be coming down for a month-long visit. I told myself immediately that the duration of his stay is going to be all about damage-control; we're going to spend a lot of time together, so I won't be able to put in a lot of hours, which of course means my productivity would drop. A couple of months later after the visit, when I was assessing how much I got done in which month - guess which one ended up at the top - the month my brother visited! While the no of hrs had dropped, the "density" of work had gone up.
- ConceptJunkie 9y agoThe concept of open offices is the most discredited idea since phrenology, but management loves it. It's cheap, and it gives you the illusion of control. All the bad things it causes are less tangible and more easily ignored.
- ConceptJunkie 9y agoIf I couldn't work with music, I wouldn't be able to stand working in an open office. There is just too much random, and most importantly, annoying noises.
- cefthurston 9y agoBack in the day when I used to work on side projects in Sydney before there was really a coworking space culture I used to work at the library. I soon stopped because it was full of high school students who didn't want to be there and the sound of a hushed conversation against a backdrop of silence was really distracting. I quickly started going to foodcourts instead. Those are better than coffee shops for me. There's a lot more white-noise and less pressure to order anything because no vendor feels you're taking 'their space'. Outlets were a bit harder but doable but outweighed by food choice at meal times and ability to run quick errands if needed. This was from Waverley Library to Westfield's food court in Bondi Junction in 2012 fwiw.