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Slightly off-topic, but that is the main reason I do not want to have kids: I am not sure I would like the kind of person I would become. Sometimes I am alread

Slightly off-topic, but that is the main reason I do not want to have kids: I am not sure I would like the kind of person I would become. Sometimes I am already paralysed by fear when thoughts about my future take a dark turn (relatively often), but at the end of the day it is my well-being (and my wife's) we are talking about, and we are economically independent adults. We could take a hit or two. Throwing little defenceless creatures in the mix? Oh gosh...

bamboozled 9y ago
This seems to be a pretty common attitude amongst a lot of people in their late twenties and early thirties I socialise with (who should probably be well into parenthood). Common question seems to be, "Why bring a child into a world facing climate change, potential nuclear war and a lack of prosperity or opportunities for personal growth". Adopting is probably a better option ;)
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  On the other hand, maybe let your kids decide if life is worth living. Seems wrong to make that decision for them...
  - mhb 9y ago
    Is it wrong to make the decision for the first 1.8 kids or the next 8-10?
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      Simple: as many kids as you would have if the world weren't so terrible that "it's wrong to bring them into a world like this."
  - graphitezepp 9y ago
    You make this decision when you have kids, not by not having them.
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      All I'm saying is that, as a reason for not having children, "it would be wrong to bring them into a world like this", is just bad reasoning. We all possess the ability to take our own lives, so if you're alive and considering whether or not to have children, you are demonstrating with your very existence that a life in current circumstances is worth living. Otherwise you would have killed yourself.
      - mijamo 9y ago
        Killing yourself is not easy. There are literally millions of people who have tried repeatedly but the instinct is strong and prevents you from actually doing it. Just go to any psychatric hospital and you will see many people wanting to die, living a miserable life, but who have not quite succeeded in killing themselves, and are just barely maintained alive by the system. In addition, the fact that life is bearable for one person at one moment doesn't mean it will be so as well for its children in 30 /50 / 60 years. You can dismiss the argument, but it makes sense and this is why eastern european countries have had such a low fertility for decades now.
        toasterlovin 9y ago
        A different way to look at it: being alive is so great that it’s worth it despite having to contend with a massive amount of misery. It just seems wrong to me to deny something so great to your children because you’re worried about global warming or whatever. Let them decide if life is worth living. Give them agency by giving them life. Also: fertility rates are dropping in all of the developed world. This phenomenon is not unique to Eastern Europe.
- ForRealsies 9y ago
  Your grandma: 6 kids. Your mother: 2 kids. You: 1 cat and an abortion.
  - superb_herb 9y ago
    That's disgusting.
  - bamboozled 9y ago
    You're wrong in every case, but am I supposed to feel ashamed or something?
    - ForRealsies 9y ago
      The "You" used wasn't directed at you personally, just as an observation of current trends.
      - dang 9y ago
        It was good of you to clarify that, but on HN it's better not to do snarky meme tropes to begin with. If you'll read the site guidelines, you'll see we're trying for a higher level of discussion than that. This being the internet, we need all the help we can get, so if you'd take the guidelines to heart (at least when commenting here!) we'd appreciate it.
- schof 9y ago
  I fully reject that "Why bring a child into this world facing..." argument. (And I'm going to skip the fact that this is probably the best time in the history of the world to be born.) Sure there are big problems in the world. My son may help FIX some of those problems. And if not, he may end up being the mayor of Bartertown.
  - bamboozled 9y ago
    Ok, interested in hearing your views?
jacobush 9y ago
OTOH is you get kids you will be so busy you can't think about these things as often. I tend to think we humans have an agony ratio we tend to maximise, pretty independently of circumstances. :) With kids you will worry as much, but over different things. And also the old things, when you get time over to mull over those...
- heavenlyblue 9y ago
  "Idiocracy" has captured this idea well enough. It's funny how smart people tend to forget their upper-middle-class ancestors _probably_ thought absolutely the same way.
- Pigo 9y ago
  I would never try to tell someone they should have kids, or make someone feel like there is anything wrong with not having them. But going on vacations or having luxury items seems so trivial compared to what I've experienced since my son was born. I don't think I'm capable of putting into words what it feels like when the doctor hands you that baby. But I can say that I don't care as much what kind of vehicle I drive, or what clothes I'm wearing, and it seems silly how much thought I used to put into such things. But I do see enough parents who obviously see their kids as nothing but an anchor to know that it's not for everyone. Some people aren't ready, or incapable, of shifting the focus away from themselves.
mlrtime 9y ago
If you have this mindset then you are already ready for kids. The people that aren't ready don't even think about it.
- hectorlorenzo 9y ago
  I hope there's a third way: ready for kids, still don't want to have any!
snikeris 9y ago
Every one of your ancestors raised children successfully.
- kleer001 9y ago
  Incorrect. "Everyone one of our ancestors successfully reproduced." is the most we can say.
  - snikeris 9y ago
    Eh yeah, I suppose some died during or shortly after reproducing, but even in those cases someone in the community raised your ancestors successfully.
    - royce 9y ago
      Even that is insufficiently precise. Death is not the only thing that separates children from parents. Neglect, disinterest, self-involvement, inability to provide, etc. And beyond a certain minimum viability, no adult is strictly required. Street "urchins" take care of themselves and each other.

bamboozled 9y ago

This seems to be a pretty common attitude amongst a lot of people in their late twenties and early thirties I socialise with (who should probably be well into parenthood). Common question seems to be, "Why bring a child into a world facing climate change, potential nuclear war and a lack of prosperity or opportunities for personal growth". Adopting is probably a better option ;)

toasterlovin 9y ago
On the other hand, maybe let your kids decide if life is worth living. Seems wrong to make that decision for them...
- mhb 9y ago
  Is it wrong to make the decision for the first 1.8 kids or the next 8-10?
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    Simple: as many kids as you would have if the world weren't so terrible that "it's wrong to bring them into a world like this."
- graphitezepp 9y ago
  You make this decision when you have kids, not by not having them.
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    All I'm saying is that, as a reason for not having children, "it would be wrong to bring them into a world like this", is just bad reasoning. We all possess the ability to take our own lives, so if you're alive and considering whether or not to have children, you are demonstrating with your very existence that a life in current circumstances is worth living. Otherwise you would have killed yourself.
    - mijamo 9y ago
      Killing yourself is not easy. There are literally millions of people who have tried repeatedly but the instinct is strong and prevents you from actually doing it. Just go to any psychatric hospital and you will see many people wanting to die, living a miserable life, but who have not quite succeeded in killing themselves, and are just barely maintained alive by the system. In addition, the fact that life is bearable for one person at one moment doesn't mean it will be so as well for its children in 30 /50 / 60 years. You can dismiss the argument, but it makes sense and this is why eastern european countries have had such a low fertility for decades now.
      - toasterlovin 9y ago
        A different way to look at it: being alive is so great that it’s worth it despite having to contend with a massive amount of misery. It just seems wrong to me to deny something so great to your children because you’re worried about global warming or whatever. Let them decide if life is worth living. Give them agency by giving them life. Also: fertility rates are dropping in all of the developed world. This phenomenon is not unique to Eastern Europe.
ForRealsies 9y ago
Your grandma: 6 kids. Your mother: 2 kids. You: 1 cat and an abortion.
- superb_herb 9y ago
  That's disgusting.
- bamboozled 9y ago
  You're wrong in every case, but am I supposed to feel ashamed or something?
  - ForRealsies 9y ago
    The "You" used wasn't directed at you personally, just as an observation of current trends.
    - dang 9y ago
      It was good of you to clarify that, but on HN it's better not to do snarky meme tropes to begin with. If you'll read the site guidelines, you'll see we're trying for a higher level of discussion than that. This being the internet, we need all the help we can get, so if you'd take the guidelines to heart (at least when commenting here!) we'd appreciate it.
schof 9y ago
I fully reject that "Why bring a child into this world facing..." argument. (And I'm going to skip the fact that this is probably the best time in the history of the world to be born.) Sure there are big problems in the world. My son may help FIX some of those problems. And if not, he may end up being the mayor of Bartertown.
- bamboozled 9y ago
  Ok, interested in hearing your views?

jacobush 9y ago

OTOH is you get kids you will be so busy you can't think about these things as often. I tend to think we humans have an agony ratio we tend to maximise, pretty independently of circumstances. :) With kids you will worry as much, but over different things. And also the old things, when you get time over to mull over those...

heavenlyblue 9y ago
"Idiocracy" has captured this idea well enough. It's funny how smart people tend to forget their upper-middle-class ancestors _probably_ thought absolutely the same way.
Pigo 9y ago
I would never try to tell someone they should have kids, or make someone feel like there is anything wrong with not having them. But going on vacations or having luxury items seems so trivial compared to what I've experienced since my son was born. I don't think I'm capable of putting into words what it feels like when the doctor hands you that baby. But I can say that I don't care as much what kind of vehicle I drive, or what clothes I'm wearing, and it seems silly how much thought I used to put into such things. But I do see enough parents who obviously see their kids as nothing but an anchor to know that it's not for everyone. Some people aren't ready, or incapable, of shifting the focus away from themselves.

mlrtime 9y ago

If you have this mindset then you are already ready for kids. The people that aren't ready don't even think about it.

hectorlorenzo 9y ago
I hope there's a third way: ready for kids, still don't want to have any!

snikeris 9y ago

Every one of your ancestors raised children successfully.

kleer001 9y ago
Incorrect. "Everyone one of our ancestors successfully reproduced." is the most we can say.
- snikeris 9y ago
  Eh yeah, I suppose some died during or shortly after reproducing, but even in those cases someone in the community raised your ancestors successfully.
  - royce 9y ago
    Even that is insufficiently precise. Death is not the only thing that separates children from parents. Neglect, disinterest, self-involvement, inability to provide, etc. And beyond a certain minimum viability, no adult is strictly required. Street "urchins" take care of themselves and each other.