4 ms·

You start with an illegal substance. You are already breaking the law so what is the big deal with using an even stronger substance. That seems to be the ration

by fmora 16y ago

You start with an illegal substance. You are already breaking the law so what is the big deal with using an even stronger substance. That seems to be the rationale used by a lot of people. I guess I should have made that clear in my original example. Believe it or not your moral values start to decrease once you start breaking them. I'll take it to another extreme: Once a criminal has become used to breaking the law, doing one more crime doesn't seem like a big deal to them. Many people will not switch from cigarettes to Marijuana because their moral values does not allow them to. i.e. They see using an illegal substance as immoral. However, if somehow you convince them to use Marijuana and break their moral value what many of them will do is to rationalize that using Marijuana is no big deal. Especially if a lot of peers are re-inforcing that notion (as many are trying to do here in Hacker News. Or to put it another way, a rotten apple will rotten all the others). That moral value is lost. Since there is no longer a moral value stopping them from using illegal substances using Cocaine is really no big deal anymore. I hypothesize that this is how criminals are created in general. The first time the commit a crime they may be really nervous, eventually they get used to it and many may go on to commit worse crimes. I guess this is why it is so important to teach kids strong moral values. Also to keep them away from bad influences. They are the most vulnerable in their teenage years from breaking their moral values. If they have not broken their moral values after their mid twenties they are probably not going to anymore.

gort 16y ago
You've now completely changed your argument. Originally it was "mild drugs lead to strong drugs". I noted that alcohol is a mild drug. Now your argument is "mild crime leads to strong crime". If I can summon a good argument against that, will you just come up with a third argument for what you're already committed to believing? Mild crime does not lead to strong crime. Like many people, in my teenage days I downloaded some music illegally. Most of us didn't become burglars. But I guarantee you almost all burglars (of the correct age group and technical skills) have downloaded music illegally.
- fmora 16y ago
  I have not changed my original stance. I've just provided more arguments to this mild debate. I know, we've all downloaded illegal music and yes many of us believe this is no big deal even though objectively speaking it is wrong. Somebody worked really hard for those songs. OK. So lets agree that doing Marijuana may not 100% of the time lead to cocaine use. That doesn't mean that it doens't increases the likelyhood of using it because you've already broken multiple moral values that go beyond just drinking or smoking. Another example: Does smoking mean that you are going to get cancer? No. But it has been proven in plenty of studies that it does increases your chances of getting cancer. And I think we can agree that using Marijuana is a step closer to using cocaine than just drinking alcohol. For once, if you are using Marijuana that means that you already have a person providing you an illegal substance. That same person can probably get you cocaine and anything else you want. If you only drink alcohol you would still have to find this illegal substance distributor. Finally, are you making the claim that there is nothing wrong with smoking Marijuana. If so does that mean that you would be OK if your kids smoke Marijuana? Now please be honest.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - philwelch 16y ago
    "Finally, are you making the claim that there is nothing wrong with smoking Marijuana. If so does that mean that you would be OK if your kids smoke Marijuana? Now please be honest." I'll make that claim. If my children were of an age where marijuana would not hurt their development, I would not only be okay with it, I would smoke it with them and listen to music. It's possible to have a moral compass aside from the law. Law is a horrible moral compass--governments are among the least moral institutions on earth. Wearing a beard was illegal in communist Albania. My moral compass is totally fine with downloading music and smoking marijuana. It's not fine with waterboarding or theft or murder.
  - Psyonic 16y ago
    I don't have kids, but I have friends who have smoked marijuana with their parents, bought marijuana for their parents, received a bong from their parents as a gift, etc. It's not that uncommon. The amount who try marijuana that move on to cocaine isn't even close to 100%. Even if I was to grant you that marijuana was a stepping stone, statistics put the number less than 50%. Most polls put the amount of American adults who've tried marijuana close to 42%. Only around 16% have tried cocaine. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1821697,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1821697,00.ht... Also, most marijuana dealers only deal enough to smoke for free plus a little extra. They certainly aren't getting rich off it. And many of them don't have connections to other drugs. That said, there is some truth to what you are saying... In school we are taught that ALL drugs are bad, that they will kill you, ruin your life, etc. Then people try marijuana, and realize it actually isn't a big deal. So that can lead some people to incorrectly conclude that all they learned was lies, not just the part about marijuana, and so they recklessly continue trying other drugs. I'll grant you this happens occasionally. But the fault there not within marijuana, but within the current education policy of treating all drugs equally. Give kids the truth and a little respect, and they just might surprise you.

by fmora 16y ago

gort 16y ago

You've now completely changed your argument. Originally it was "mild drugs lead to strong drugs". I noted that alcohol is a mild drug. Now your argument is "mild crime leads to strong crime". If I can summon a good argument against that, will you just come up with a third argument for what you're already committed to believing? Mild crime does not lead to strong crime. Like many people, in my teenage days I downloaded some music illegally. Most of us didn't become burglars. But I guarantee you almost all burglars (of the correct age group and technical skills) have downloaded music illegally.

fmora 16y ago
I have not changed my original stance. I've just provided more arguments to this mild debate. I know, we've all downloaded illegal music and yes many of us believe this is no big deal even though objectively speaking it is wrong. Somebody worked really hard for those songs. OK. So lets agree that doing Marijuana may not 100% of the time lead to cocaine use. That doesn't mean that it doens't increases the likelyhood of using it because you've already broken multiple moral values that go beyond just drinking or smoking. Another example: Does smoking mean that you are going to get cancer? No. But it has been proven in plenty of studies that it does increases your chances of getting cancer. And I think we can agree that using Marijuana is a step closer to using cocaine than just drinking alcohol. For once, if you are using Marijuana that means that you already have a person providing you an illegal substance. That same person can probably get you cocaine and anything else you want. If you only drink alcohol you would still have to find this illegal substance distributor. Finally, are you making the claim that there is nothing wrong with smoking Marijuana. If so does that mean that you would be OK if your kids smoke Marijuana? Now please be honest.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- philwelch 16y ago
  "Finally, are you making the claim that there is nothing wrong with smoking Marijuana. If so does that mean that you would be OK if your kids smoke Marijuana? Now please be honest." I'll make that claim. If my children were of an age where marijuana would not hurt their development, I would not only be okay with it, I would smoke it with them and listen to music. It's possible to have a moral compass aside from the law. Law is a horrible moral compass--governments are among the least moral institutions on earth. Wearing a beard was illegal in communist Albania. My moral compass is totally fine with downloading music and smoking marijuana. It's not fine with waterboarding or theft or murder.
- Psyonic 16y ago
  I don't have kids, but I have friends who have smoked marijuana with their parents, bought marijuana for their parents, received a bong from their parents as a gift, etc. It's not that uncommon. The amount who try marijuana that move on to cocaine isn't even close to 100%. Even if I was to grant you that marijuana was a stepping stone, statistics put the number less than 50%. Most polls put the amount of American adults who've tried marijuana close to 42%. Only around 16% have tried cocaine. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1821697,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1821697,00.ht... Also, most marijuana dealers only deal enough to smoke for free plus a little extra. They certainly aren't getting rich off it. And many of them don't have connections to other drugs. That said, there is some truth to what you are saying... In school we are taught that ALL drugs are bad, that they will kill you, ruin your life, etc. Then people try marijuana, and realize it actually isn't a big deal. So that can lead some people to incorrectly conclude that all they learned was lies, not just the part about marijuana, and so they recklessly continue trying other drugs. I'll grant you this happens occasionally. But the fault there not within marijuana, but within the current education policy of treating all drugs equally. Give kids the truth and a little respect, and they just might surprise you.