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It’s still a win for Boeing and Trump. Bombardiers plans to enlarge the CS series to compete with the 737 will not happen as Airbus already has the Neo. The thr

by rpiguy 9y ago

It’s still a win for Boeing and Trump. Bombardiers plans to enlarge the CS series to compete with the 737 will not happen as Airbus already has the Neo. The threat of a new entrant is gone, jobs move out of Canada to the airbus plant in the US, and the CS stays at a size below the prime markets Boeing and Airbus compete in. While I am sure Boeing would rather have the program killed entirely this still works out very well for them.

wahern 9y ago
The A319neo is as good as dead. According to https://www.ft.com/content/201bf186-b350-11e7-a398-73d59db9e399 https://www.ft.com/content/201bf186-b350-11e7-a398-73d59db9e... , the A319neo hasn't had a sale in over 4 years. Airbus previously passed on this Bombardier deal several years ago because of the market segment conflict with the A319. Given there have been zero sales in the interim, I think it's a safe assumption that Airbus has decided to throw in the towel on the A319 and embrace the C-Series. Not just for the product but also for the strategic multinational relationships. Maximizing those relationships requires committing to the C-Series. The deal doesn't make sense unless Airbus is all-in. Your point about a stretched C-Series being off the table stands, but that's very different from Airbus suffocating the C-Series altogether. With the A319 out of the way Airbus would have every incentive to position the C-Series against the smaller 737MAX variants.
- rpiguy 9y ago
  The current C series does not really compete with the 737MAX for most routes, that is one of the absurd things about Boeing’s trade dispute. Boeing does not have a 737MAX small enough to overlap the CS is a 717compwtitor which they don’t make anymore anyway. It was all about what could be, not really about the CS as it is available today.
  - wahern 9y ago
    According to Wikipedia the CS300 has the same seating capacity as the 737MAX 7. The CS300 has a shorter range--3,300 nmi vs 3,825 nmi. OTOH, I imagine it's a lighter plane and much more fuel efficient. Is the range a big deal for most customers? Or are the CS300 numbers not realistic to put it in the same class as the 737MAX 7?
    - rpiguy 9y ago
      You are right the high end of the CS300 competes with the low end of the 737. I was thinking of the actual trade dispute Boeing filed which was over the sale of CS100 aircraft to Delta, which actually does not compete with the 737.

by rpiguy 9y ago

wahern 9y ago

The A319neo is as good as dead. According to https://www.ft.com/content/201bf186-b350-11e7-a398-73d59db9e399 https://www.ft.com/content/201bf186-b350-11e7-a398-73d59db9e... , the A319neo hasn't had a sale in over 4 years. Airbus previously passed on this Bombardier deal several years ago because of the market segment conflict with the A319. Given there have been zero sales in the interim, I think it's a safe assumption that Airbus has decided to throw in the towel on the A319 and embrace the C-Series. Not just for the product but also for the strategic multinational relationships. Maximizing those relationships requires committing to the C-Series. The deal doesn't make sense unless Airbus is all-in. Your point about a stretched C-Series being off the table stands, but that's very different from Airbus suffocating the C-Series altogether. With the A319 out of the way Airbus would have every incentive to position the C-Series against the smaller 737MAX variants.

rpiguy 9y ago
The current C series does not really compete with the 737MAX for most routes, that is one of the absurd things about Boeing’s trade dispute. Boeing does not have a 737MAX small enough to overlap the CS is a 717compwtitor which they don’t make anymore anyway. It was all about what could be, not really about the CS as it is available today.
- wahern 9y ago
  According to Wikipedia the CS300 has the same seating capacity as the 737MAX 7. The CS300 has a shorter range--3,300 nmi vs 3,825 nmi. OTOH, I imagine it's a lighter plane and much more fuel efficient. Is the range a big deal for most customers? Or are the CS300 numbers not realistic to put it in the same class as the 737MAX 7?
  - rpiguy 9y ago
    You are right the high end of the CS300 competes with the low end of the 737. I was thinking of the actual trade dispute Boeing filed which was over the sale of CS100 aircraft to Delta, which actually does not compete with the 737.