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Maybe this is a little churlish, but while I agree that we should say that a person that finishes out his prison sentence should be considered to have paid his

Maybe this is a little churlish, but while I agree that we should say that a person that finishes out his prison sentence should be considered to have paid his debt and from then forward be on an equal footing, I think that should be equal footing. We shouldn't let our cultural love affairs with redemption narratives sway our judgments to the point where we are treating someone better for having gone to prison. It is really really hard to become a law professor. Not only are there a huge group of lawyers that would love to become law professors, but because of the difficulty in getting social science appointments and because law professorships pay significantly better than social science appointments, there's now a huge group of Phds also vying for these spots. Shon Hopewood went to the University of Washington law school. He may well have been the only tenure track hire that graduated from that law school in ten years. Not that its a bad school, but law and especially the law professoriat is incredibly credentialist. Yes, he got a good Court of Appeals clerkship, but I'd bet there's members of the Elect (those that had SCOTUS clerkships) on the market that didn't get tenure track offers this year, much less offers at Georgetown. Maybe you'd say, well he's going to be great in the classroom -- students will get an entirely unique perspective. I'm sure that's true, but law schools don't hire tenure track professors because they'll be good in the classroom. At best that might be a partial factor in hiring adjuncts (the primary factor being willingness to take the starvation wages they pay adjuncts). All of which I mention just to show that this really does look like putting a finger on the scale. I grew up in this society, I'm not immune to the pull of a redemption narrative. It does speak to me, but I think when we step back and think about it we really shouldn't be favoring people that did things like commit armed robbery over those that didn't. Even if they paid their debt. Equal footing, sure, but not better.

halestock 9y ago
Considering the restrictions on felons obtaining a job, a firearm, even voting, I would say this this story definitely represents the exception rather than the rule when it comes to how we treat them.
- gnunez 9y ago
  Could this be white privilege at work again? I mean this guy got 2 cases granted which seems to be quite an accomplishment in the legal world, but don't you think race had little something to do with it The guy interviewing him said, "[he] looked more like a lawyer then a bank robber". Why? Because he's white?
  - ra1n85 9y ago
    “he looked more like a [insert role here] than a [insert role here]”. Why because he’s [ethnicity]? [citation backing up presumption that the quote was based on real world evidence, or founded on probabilities]
  - ScottBurson 9y ago
    There's no way to know. It crossed my mind too to wonder about that. I would like to think that an African-American man, or woman!, who had done all the same things would have wound up in the same position. But I don't know that we're there yet. The problem I have with invoking "white (or male) privilege" is that it tends to depreciate the person's accomplishment, and even to make them feel guilty for it. If they have done something to demonstrate prejudice or encourage it in others, that is fair game for criticism. Succeeding at something, in and of itself, is not, even if you think it was easier for them than it should have been.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  I am also for second chances, but to offer a contrarian view, armed robbery is still a defining characteristic of his life. We are just animals. If we are honest about it: For as easily as we can say different dogs have different temperaments--some make good playmates for children, some good for attacking people--certain people also are better suited to different roles as citizens of a civilization. Years ago I used to actively play a popular Valve online game, pseudo-competitively. In this community developed toxic culture of harassment and demeaning comments towards one female player. I remember she would be interrupted with things such as "shut up whore." But there were those who would try to stop it, even though they would be negatively impacted by it, and harassed themselves. Unfortunately in the years since then, I've read about this happening elsewhere. But fortunately I have seen a lot about the importance of respect and fairness towards women (and all people) in tech and online gaming. But do we need to wait for every wrong to have a rights movement against it, to know that it's wrong? I disagree. I think even those perpetuating this towards her were fully aware that it was wrong; they just didn't care. There are good and bad people, and it's an evolutionary advantage to us that we have evolved to care about this. Armed robbery is not the worst thing anyone had ever done, and he deserves a second chance. I'm skeptical of why he is a Georgetown law professor. If I take off my moral lense of the world, I have to ask myself in an age when a 75-year-old man spends 12 years in jail for 2 marijuana plants, Snowden is a criminal, and pedophiles and sexual predators either get a slap on the wrist or protected as long as they're rich, who exactly the cultural trends minimizing dastardly behavior benefits...
ScottBurson 9y ago
Without formal training, he wrote a petition for certoriari that was accepted by the US Supreme Court. That's a hell of an accomplishment, and one that bespeaks an unusual level of talent. I don't think we have to see this as a finger on the scale at all.
- rayiner 9y ago
  I think that’s a big part of it. Getting a cert petition accepted puts you in a small pool of lawyers. Doing it from prison, more than once, without a SCOTUS clerkship or a stint at the SG’s office to give you insight into the unique dynamics of that process, shows some talent and also puts him in a niche that could be valuable to a university like Georgetown.
- akira2501 9y ago
  _Two_ petitions that were accepted to the Supreme Court.
zdean 9y ago
Did you actually get through the entire story? This guy got 2 cases in front of the Supreme Court WHILE IN PRISON! That in itself would be a career maker for any lawyer...he did it before he went to law school....WHILE IN PRISON!
pcthrowaway 9y ago
Did you consider the fact that his felony, or other factors caused by his incarceration, may have made him ineligible for admission into the upper-tier law schools? I'm having a bit of a hard time seeing why you feel other candidates should have been selected before Shon.. maybe he was really the best of the candidates with regards to some quality they were looking at.
aaron695 9y ago
He has a unique experience from within the system, this has some value that other lawyers don't have. Would you want all agronomists to just have PHDs or just experience in agronomy or would you also like a farmer who then trained in agronomy in the mix? Checkout Mindhunter, I think it's pretty BS relating it to real life it's a little cliched, but it's a fun way to think.
- bradleyjg 9y ago
  If I were in charge of hiring for law schools it would look very different. There'd be lots of people with practical experience. But I'm not in charge and those that are never hire anyone with practical experience for tenure track jobs. The hire people that went to Yale or Harvard Law School, clerked for a Supreme Court justice, and preferably have a Phd in some allied field. Do you think this is the beginning of a new trend and from here forward they aren't going to hire like I outlined above? If we want to know if there was a finger on the scale, we need to look at how things work, not how we would wish them to work.
kamaal 9y ago
>>I think when we step back and think about it we really shouldn't be favoring people that did things like commit armed robbery over those that didn't. I think people do not understand things like adversity and redemption do to a person's psychology. The sheer motivation and drive to beat all odds and succeed are likely to be way higher in a person like this. It might sound unfair to you. But some forms of failure are life altering, reformative and helpful, than success can ever be.

halestock 9y ago

Considering the restrictions on felons obtaining a job, a firearm, even voting, I would say this this story definitely represents the exception rather than the rule when it comes to how we treat them.

gnunez 9y ago
Could this be white privilege at work again? I mean this guy got 2 cases granted which seems to be quite an accomplishment in the legal world, but don't you think race had little something to do with it The guy interviewing him said, "[he] looked more like a lawyer then a bank robber". Why? Because he's white?
- ra1n85 9y ago
  “he looked more like a [insert role here] than a [insert role here]”. Why because he’s [ethnicity]? [citation backing up presumption that the quote was based on real world evidence, or founded on probabilities]
- ScottBurson 9y ago
  There's no way to know. It crossed my mind too to wonder about that. I would like to think that an African-American man, or woman!, who had done all the same things would have wound up in the same position. But I don't know that we're there yet. The problem I have with invoking "white (or male) privilege" is that it tends to depreciate the person's accomplishment, and even to make them feel guilty for it. If they have done something to demonstrate prejudice or encourage it in others, that is fair game for criticism. Succeeding at something, in and of itself, is not, even if you think it was easier for them than it should have been.
wallace_f 9y ago
I am also for second chances, but to offer a contrarian view, armed robbery is still a defining characteristic of his life. We are just animals. If we are honest about it: For as easily as we can say different dogs have different temperaments--some make good playmates for children, some good for attacking people--certain people also are better suited to different roles as citizens of a civilization. Years ago I used to actively play a popular Valve online game, pseudo-competitively. In this community developed toxic culture of harassment and demeaning comments towards one female player. I remember she would be interrupted with things such as "shut up whore." But there were those who would try to stop it, even though they would be negatively impacted by it, and harassed themselves. Unfortunately in the years since then, I've read about this happening elsewhere. But fortunately I have seen a lot about the importance of respect and fairness towards women (and all people) in tech and online gaming. But do we need to wait for every wrong to have a rights movement against it, to know that it's wrong? I disagree. I think even those perpetuating this towards her were fully aware that it was wrong; they just didn't care. There are good and bad people, and it's an evolutionary advantage to us that we have evolved to care about this. Armed robbery is not the worst thing anyone had ever done, and he deserves a second chance. I'm skeptical of why he is a Georgetown law professor. If I take off my moral lense of the world, I have to ask myself in an age when a 75-year-old man spends 12 years in jail for 2 marijuana plants, Snowden is a criminal, and pedophiles and sexual predators either get a slap on the wrist or protected as long as they're rich, who exactly the cultural trends minimizing dastardly behavior benefits...

ScottBurson 9y ago

Without formal training, he wrote a petition for certoriari that was accepted by the US Supreme Court. That's a hell of an accomplishment, and one that bespeaks an unusual level of talent. I don't think we have to see this as a finger on the scale at all.

rayiner 9y ago
I think that’s a big part of it. Getting a cert petition accepted puts you in a small pool of lawyers. Doing it from prison, more than once, without a SCOTUS clerkship or a stint at the SG’s office to give you insight into the unique dynamics of that process, shows some talent and also puts him in a niche that could be valuable to a university like Georgetown.
akira2501 9y ago
_Two_ petitions that were accepted to the Supreme Court.

zdean 9y ago

Did you actually get through the entire story? This guy got 2 cases in front of the Supreme Court WHILE IN PRISON! That in itself would be a career maker for any lawyer...he did it before he went to law school....WHILE IN PRISON!

pcthrowaway 9y ago

Did you consider the fact that his felony, or other factors caused by his incarceration, may have made him ineligible for admission into the upper-tier law schools? I'm having a bit of a hard time seeing why you feel other candidates should have been selected before Shon.. maybe he was really the best of the candidates with regards to some quality they were looking at.

aaron695 9y ago

He has a unique experience from within the system, this has some value that other lawyers don't have. Would you want all agronomists to just have PHDs or just experience in agronomy or would you also like a farmer who then trained in agronomy in the mix? Checkout Mindhunter, I think it's pretty BS relating it to real life it's a little cliched, but it's a fun way to think.

bradleyjg 9y ago
If I were in charge of hiring for law schools it would look very different. There'd be lots of people with practical experience. But I'm not in charge and those that are never hire anyone with practical experience for tenure track jobs. The hire people that went to Yale or Harvard Law School, clerked for a Supreme Court justice, and preferably have a Phd in some allied field. Do you think this is the beginning of a new trend and from here forward they aren't going to hire like I outlined above? If we want to know if there was a finger on the scale, we need to look at how things work, not how we would wish them to work.

kamaal 9y ago

>>I think when we step back and think about it we really shouldn't be favoring people that did things like commit armed robbery over those that didn't. I think people do not understand things like adversity and redemption do to a person's psychology. The sheer motivation and drive to beat all odds and succeed are likely to be way higher in a person like this. It might sound unfair to you. But some forms of failure are life altering, reformative and helpful, than success can ever be.