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> There's no evidence that their use against people is likely to substantially increase over the next few years, so it's not something that is worth worrying ab

by alva 9y ago

> There's no evidence that their use against people is likely to substantially increase over the next few years, so it's not something that is worth worrying about It does not even matter whether there is evidence that the risk is likely to increase or not. Plus, it is arguable unknowable what the current risk may be now or in a few years time (plus, do you really trust NK's safety in chain of command and equipment?). Regardless, no matter how unlikely the event is to occur the magnitude or the event is so unbelievably massive that is something to be worthy of worrying about. It all comes downs to understanding that despite a extremely low probability of occurring, some events are so earth shattering, you cannot discount it by its probability of happening. On September 10th there was no evidence an attack on New York City was particularly likely (apart from in the minds of the terrorists). But September 11th came along and changed the West and Middle East for decades.

jstanley 9y ago
No, it didn't. Or, at least, it needn't have. 3,000 people died. Yes, it's tragic, but it's much less tragic than the hundreds of millions of others who have died since. http://www.overcomingbias.com/2011/09/forget-911.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2011/09/forget-911.html
- alva 9y ago
  That is literally the point I am making. You are misunderstanding me completely. No matter how unlikely an extreme event might be, if/when it does occur it has earth shattering effects due to the complexity of the world. This is why we need to be so vigilant in protecting ourselves against these threats. I finished with "But September 11th came along and changed the West and Middle East for decades." That is the point. 9/11 was tragic enough, but it triggered an avalanche of death and trillions of dollars spent. These sort of attacks have non-linear effects that cannot be predicted. You originally stated you are more likely to die falling down the stairs therefore "Bomb attacks are not something you should be concerned by." My response is that terror attacks are like what we see in 9/11. Considering that event resulted in hundreds of millions of death due to the complexities of the world AND the risk distribution and magnitude is completely incomparable to known risks and their distributions, it is nonsense to dismiss the risks as you are more likely to die falling down the stairs.
  - contras1970 9y ago
    so anti-terrorism hysteria is warranted because anti-terrorism hysteria has already triggered an avalanche of death and trillions of dollars spent.
  - jstanley 9y ago
    The hundreds of millions that have died since 9/11 are in no way connected to 9/11. You're misunderstanding me. Hundreds of millions is the total deaths across the entire human population since then. And those people are each just as worthy as the 3,000 that died in 9/11.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  I don't know how to say this without seeming rude, but you just don't get people. I fully agree with your logic. But you are emotionally illiterate, and people are emotional animals. If you don't make the effort to connect with people on an emotional level most of them will not listen to your rational arguments. I absolutely feel your frustration. I share your basic outlook. But most people don't. You're not smarter, you're just not as easy to activate emotionally as they are. That's why advertising and propaganda in general doesn't consist of long earnest rational arguments of the sort found in academic journals. It consists of atavistic emotional manipulation because that is what works most reliably. Has anyone ever handed you a political flyer that consisted of a wall of text that you glanced at but didn't bother to read because you just couldn't be bothered to navigate >1000 words of half-baked political theory that didn't really speak to you as an individual? Well that's how your arguments come across to most regular folk. Being right is not important if you can't get people to pay attention. Citing comparative statistics is a wonderful way to get people to ignore you.

by alva 9y ago

jstanley 9y ago

No, it didn't. Or, at least, it needn't have. 3,000 people died. Yes, it's tragic, but it's much less tragic than the hundreds of millions of others who have died since. http://www.overcomingbias.com/2011/09/forget-911.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2011/09/forget-911.html

alva 9y ago
That is literally the point I am making. You are misunderstanding me completely. No matter how unlikely an extreme event might be, if/when it does occur it has earth shattering effects due to the complexity of the world. This is why we need to be so vigilant in protecting ourselves against these threats. I finished with "But September 11th came along and changed the West and Middle East for decades." That is the point. 9/11 was tragic enough, but it triggered an avalanche of death and trillions of dollars spent. These sort of attacks have non-linear effects that cannot be predicted. You originally stated you are more likely to die falling down the stairs therefore "Bomb attacks are not something you should be concerned by." My response is that terror attacks are like what we see in 9/11. Considering that event resulted in hundreds of millions of death due to the complexities of the world AND the risk distribution and magnitude is completely incomparable to known risks and their distributions, it is nonsense to dismiss the risks as you are more likely to die falling down the stairs.
- contras1970 9y ago
  so anti-terrorism hysteria is warranted because anti-terrorism hysteria has already triggered an avalanche of death and trillions of dollars spent.
- jstanley 9y ago
  The hundreds of millions that have died since 9/11 are in no way connected to 9/11. You're misunderstanding me. Hundreds of millions is the total deaths across the entire human population since then. And those people are each just as worthy as the 3,000 that died in 9/11.
anigbrowl 9y ago
I don't know how to say this without seeming rude, but you just don't get people. I fully agree with your logic. But you are emotionally illiterate, and people are emotional animals. If you don't make the effort to connect with people on an emotional level most of them will not listen to your rational arguments. I absolutely feel your frustration. I share your basic outlook. But most people don't. You're not smarter, you're just not as easy to activate emotionally as they are. That's why advertising and propaganda in general doesn't consist of long earnest rational arguments of the sort found in academic journals. It consists of atavistic emotional manipulation because that is what works most reliably. Has anyone ever handed you a political flyer that consisted of a wall of text that you glanced at but didn't bother to read because you just couldn't be bothered to navigate >1000 words of half-baked political theory that didn't really speak to you as an individual? Well that's how your arguments come across to most regular folk. Being right is not important if you can't get people to pay attention. Citing comparative statistics is a wonderful way to get people to ignore you.