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And Boeing issuing statements like it's kindergarten. https://twitter.com/Boeing/status/920373843142864896 https://twitter.com/Boeing/status/920373843142864896

valuearb 9y ago
Boeing is a bunch of idiots, the C series didn’t compete with them at all. A company like Boeing that gets massive government contracts and depends on free trade shouldn’t be shitting on free trade.
- amunicio 9y ago
  I would not characterize Boeing as idiots... More like paranoids. Boeing is scared (panicked?) of having a new entrant. The commercial jet industry has huge costs of entry that act as a very high barrier for newcomers. The C series, if successful, would have acted a stepping stone into bigger jets that would be competing directly with Boeing. Airbus buying the C series is, in a way, a small victory for Boeing. It leaves the market as a duopoly and ensures that Bombardier will not get into bigger planes. It also sends a strong signal that no third competitor will be allowed. At least until the Chinese government heavily subsidizes a homegrown competitor with huge military tanker contracts.
- jonknee 9y ago
  > A company like Boeing that gets massive government contracts and depends on free trade shouldn’t be shitting on free trade. Opposed to all the other airliner manufacturers that don't get government contracts? From the article: > The Quebec government invested $1.25 billion in exchange for a 49.5 per cent stake in the CSeries last year. The federal government also recently provided a $344-million loan to Bombardier, which struggled to win orders. And of course Airbus is partially owned by France, Germany and others. Everyone in this story has deep government ties.
  - acomjean 9y ago
    I presumed the parent meant huge non-airplane military contracts. Airplanes are 69% of revenue but just 54% of profits (now that the dreamliner is in production)[1]. The rest is defense were margins are higher. I was working years ago at a defense contractor who was a sub on a Boeing radar project. The running joke was the Government was giving Boeing work to let it capitalize the design of a new plane. [1]https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/01/30/boeing-earnings-the-defense-edition.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/01/30/boeing-earnings-th...
Silhouette 9y ago
So the C Series doesn't actually compete with Boeing (because they don't currently make any aircraft aimed at the same market) and yet Boeing are trying to rub salt in the wound here. That doesn't seem like a smart move when these events threaten thousands of Bombardier and supply chain jobs in Canada and Northern Ireland and when you're also hoping for billions in business selling military aircraft to both the Canadian and the British governments in the near future.
dghughes 9y ago
And Boeing raking in $13 billion in government subsidies over the years but denying it receives any subsidies. Bombardier denying they receive subsidies is also stupid. All aircraft manufacturers get piles of government cash even Airbus and Embraer. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/the-united-states-of-subsidies-the-biggest-corporate-winners-in-each-state/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/t...

valuearb 9y ago

Boeing is a bunch of idiots, the C series didn’t compete with them at all. A company like Boeing that gets massive government contracts and depends on free trade shouldn’t be shitting on free trade.

amunicio 9y ago
I would not characterize Boeing as idiots... More like paranoids. Boeing is scared (panicked?) of having a new entrant. The commercial jet industry has huge costs of entry that act as a very high barrier for newcomers. The C series, if successful, would have acted a stepping stone into bigger jets that would be competing directly with Boeing. Airbus buying the C series is, in a way, a small victory for Boeing. It leaves the market as a duopoly and ensures that Bombardier will not get into bigger planes. It also sends a strong signal that no third competitor will be allowed. At least until the Chinese government heavily subsidizes a homegrown competitor with huge military tanker contracts.
jonknee 9y ago
> A company like Boeing that gets massive government contracts and depends on free trade shouldn’t be shitting on free trade. Opposed to all the other airliner manufacturers that don't get government contracts? From the article: > The Quebec government invested $1.25 billion in exchange for a 49.5 per cent stake in the CSeries last year. The federal government also recently provided a $344-million loan to Bombardier, which struggled to win orders. And of course Airbus is partially owned by France, Germany and others. Everyone in this story has deep government ties.
- acomjean 9y ago
  I presumed the parent meant huge non-airplane military contracts. Airplanes are 69% of revenue but just 54% of profits (now that the dreamliner is in production)[1]. The rest is defense were margins are higher. I was working years ago at a defense contractor who was a sub on a Boeing radar project. The running joke was the Government was giving Boeing work to let it capitalize the design of a new plane. [1]https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/01/30/boeing-earnings-the-defense-edition.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/01/30/boeing-earnings-th...

Silhouette 9y ago

So the C Series doesn't actually compete with Boeing (because they don't currently make any aircraft aimed at the same market) and yet Boeing are trying to rub salt in the wound here. That doesn't seem like a smart move when these events threaten thousands of Bombardier and supply chain jobs in Canada and Northern Ireland and when you're also hoping for billions in business selling military aircraft to both the Canadian and the British governments in the near future.

dghughes 9y ago

And Boeing raking in $13 billion in government subsidies over the years but denying it receives any subsidies. Bombardier denying they receive subsidies is also stupid. All aircraft manufacturers get piles of government cash even Airbus and Embraer. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/the-united-states-of-subsidies-the-biggest-corporate-winners-in-each-state/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/t...