4 ms·

That's an interesting way to look at it. Apply your comment to Harvey Weinstein and see if you can give him a pass on an "incredible waste of talent and abilit

That's an interesting way to look at it. Apply your comment to Harvey Weinstein and see if you can give him a pass on an "incredible waste of talent and ability"

pizza 9y ago
Weinstein is talented? Though, you could make this argument with Bill Cosby. World-class talent who went on a decades-long campaign of rapes and sexual assaults. Many people might now feel distraught their idol was a monster.
- taobility 9y ago
  If Weinstein is talented it would be okay? Why talent matter his morality?
  - pizza 9y ago
    No, it still wouldn't be if he were. This is just about being dismayed by revelations about people whose fans used to look up to them.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Weinstein is talented? Success as a producer probably involves significant skill/talent, of a similar kind that drives success in other organizational/leadership roles.
freedomben 9y ago
Advocating for not locking people up isn't equivalent to arguing that there should be no enforcement of law or punishment for crimes committed, or as you say, giving someone "a pass". This seems to me an example of a false dilemma (logical fallacy). There are other strategies available besides either incarcerating someone or doing nothing at all. I simply think that in general locking people up is inefficient, ineffective, and immoral. There are certainly exceptions IMHO; I'm not an absolutist on this. But I think the actual cases that justify incarcerations are a small percentage of what we currently have.
- watwut 9y ago
  The argument for not locking up was that "he works hard and has great mind". Imo, both are weak argument to treat that person any different if that person really commuted crime that would put less great hacker to prison.
  - freedomben 9y ago
    No, the argument for not locking up was that he is a human being and has rights, and incarceration is a barbaric practice that doesn't work anyway (if the stated goal is rehabilitation, which it usually is). Hard work and a great mind have nothing to do with the justification for not imprisoning him. Those come into play when considering the waste to society as a result of locking him up. I can see how the two positions were conflated, but hopefully this clarifies.
- martin1975 9y ago
  Curious where you draw your morals from...
  - freedomben 9y ago
    This is a fantastic question. I tend to vacillate on this, and thus do not have as firm a foundation as I would personally like. However being honest with myself I have a lot of questions for which there are no easy answers. However what I haven't really waivered on is my resonance with Enlightenment values, especially John Stuart Mill. I like a lot of what Michael Shermer has to say regarding a scientific basis for morality. He has a book called The Moral Arc: How Science and Reason Lead Humanity toward Truth, Justice, and Freedom which I find quite interesting. Ultimately this may be the best ground on which to attack my argument, since it is a tripartite argument and one of those is based on morality. I will cede that the argument from morality is subjective, and ultimately some form of argument from authority which is a weak case.
    - martin1975 9y ago
      Don't take this the wrong way... your manner of speaking about this strikes me as very authoritarian.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Apply your comment to Harvey Weinstein and see if you can give him a pass on an "incredible waste of talent and ability"

pizza 9y ago

Weinstein is talented? Though, you could make this argument with Bill Cosby. World-class talent who went on a decades-long campaign of rapes and sexual assaults. Many people might now feel distraught their idol was a monster.

taobility 9y ago
If Weinstein is talented it would be okay? Why talent matter his morality?
- pizza 9y ago
  No, it still wouldn't be if he were. This is just about being dismayed by revelations about people whose fans used to look up to them.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Weinstein is talented? Success as a producer probably involves significant skill/talent, of a similar kind that drives success in other organizational/leadership roles.

freedomben 9y ago

Advocating for not locking people up isn't equivalent to arguing that there should be no enforcement of law or punishment for crimes committed, or as you say, giving someone "a pass". This seems to me an example of a false dilemma (logical fallacy). There are other strategies available besides either incarcerating someone or doing nothing at all. I simply think that in general locking people up is inefficient, ineffective, and immoral. There are certainly exceptions IMHO; I'm not an absolutist on this. But I think the actual cases that justify incarcerations are a small percentage of what we currently have.

watwut 9y ago
The argument for not locking up was that "he works hard and has great mind". Imo, both are weak argument to treat that person any different if that person really commuted crime that would put less great hacker to prison.
- freedomben 9y ago
  No, the argument for not locking up was that he is a human being and has rights, and incarceration is a barbaric practice that doesn't work anyway (if the stated goal is rehabilitation, which it usually is). Hard work and a great mind have nothing to do with the justification for not imprisoning him. Those come into play when considering the waste to society as a result of locking him up. I can see how the two positions were conflated, but hopefully this clarifies.
martin1975 9y ago
Curious where you draw your morals from...
- freedomben 9y ago
  This is a fantastic question. I tend to vacillate on this, and thus do not have as firm a foundation as I would personally like. However being honest with myself I have a lot of questions for which there are no easy answers. However what I haven't really waivered on is my resonance with Enlightenment values, especially John Stuart Mill. I like a lot of what Michael Shermer has to say regarding a scientific basis for morality. He has a book called The Moral Arc: How Science and Reason Lead Humanity toward Truth, Justice, and Freedom which I find quite interesting. Ultimately this may be the best ground on which to attack my argument, since it is a tripartite argument and one of those is based on morality. I will cede that the argument from morality is subjective, and ultimately some form of argument from authority which is a weak case.
  - martin1975 9y ago
    Don't take this the wrong way... your manner of speaking about this strikes me as very authoritarian.