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I agree with that. We supposed to live in society where people can make mistakes, learn from them and move on. If you stole a candy at age 14 from a local store

I agree with that. We supposed to live in society where people can make mistakes, learn from them and move on. If you stole a candy at age 14 from a local store, it is surprise to label you "criminal" at age 35 no? Just because someone did crime and did time, doesn't mean we should continue treating them like criminal.

sushid 9y ago
> If you stole a candy at age 14 from a local store, it is surprise to label you "criminal" at age 35 no? Where is this point coming from? If you got caught stealing candy at age 14, you're not going to become a convicted felon. NEVER. When you commit an armed robbery, I think it's fair to label someone as a former criminal.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- vkou 9y ago
  What about burglary? Grand theft auto? Stealing bikes? Starting a barfight? Serial shoplifting? Downloading a few million documents from JSTOR? Being a street pharmaceutical sales representative? [1] Missing child support payments (Jail time definitely helps with your prospects of making the next payment)? Do all of these brand you with the mark of Cain, for the rest of your life? If so, why do we even let criminals out of prison? Haven't they served their time? [1] One of my acquaintances went from being a drug dealer to a very successful franchise owner (I met him after he made the transition.) Prison wasn't the catalyst for him, but getting shot at by a competitor was. Would we all had been better off if he were shut off from 'good jobs' for the rest of his life?
- mulmen 9y ago
  I don't think you can reasonably claim that a person who steals candy at age 14 will never be a convicted felon, especially when labels tend to stick with people and influence their later life choices and situation. Where is the benefit to society in labeling someone a criminal for the rest of their lives? Are you arguing that prison ought to have no rehabilitating effect?
- btilly 9y ago
  However if you are caught at 14 with a naked picture of a 13 year old classmate on your phone, you'll become a convicted sex offender for life. This is not at all hypothetical. I've seen estimates that 1/4 of all convicted sex offenders were themselves minors at the time of conviction, and 14 is the age at which you are most likely to become a registered sex offender. Which will for the rest of your life affect where you live, what jobs you can take, and force you to be registered on a database where your neighbors can see that you're awful but get no useful information about your crime. As a parent of pre-teens I'm far more concerned about them being caught up in this life-destroying lottery than I am about, say, their being kidnapped if they are so unwise as to talk to strangers.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    I believe a teen can be convicted of distributing child pornography for sending a picture of themselves to someone. The legal system terrifies me.
- donarb 9y ago
  How about at 67? A US citizen living overseas is not being told that he can't come to the US because of crimes he committed over 50 years ago. https://www.salon.com/2017/10/16/alvin-queen-american-born-jazz-artist-denied-entry-for-brush-in-with-law-50-years-ago/?ref=hvper.com https://www.salon.com/2017/10/16/alvin-queen-american-born-j...
  - bdowling 9y ago
    "Funny thing, I gave up my U.S. passport to make life simpler at tax time." (from linked article) It seems that he renounced his citizenship in order to avoid paying U.S. income taxes, so I don't think you can call him a "US citizen living overseas" anymore.
jdmichal 9y ago
Interesting thought experiment: What if records were sealed by default once judgement has been satisfied? Or, rather, do as much as possible within the legal system to restore the individual's previous reputation and status. Some version of this exists for juvenile records already, because we recognize that people can grow and learn. I could also see arguments for allowing the above for misdemeanors but not felonies.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  A good approach; the 'ban the box' campaign that aims to prevent questions about past felonies on employment applications is a step in this direction.
- Clubber 9y ago
  >I could also see arguments for allowing the above for misdemeanors but not felonies. You'd be surprised at how many petty offenses are considered felonies. Shortly after high school, a friend of mine took a stop sign and put it in his apartment. A few years later, the police came for some reason (he might have gotten robbed) and they saw the stop sign. He was arrested on a felony charge because the stop sign cost more than $500. (the second jaw drop is the stop sign company duped taxpayers at the tune of $500 a sign).
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Signs are very expensive. They require special paint that has to reflect a specific amount of light. They must be of fairly exact specs, requiring proprietary fonts, and are often low volume and customized. There is also the installation, which must conform to various specifications and is limited in placement, meaning a certain level of expertise is required. In short, don't get caught stealing signs. They are expensive and it pisses people off. Seriously, that paint is very expensive, as is the coating over it.
    - mulmen 9y ago
      What if I like the aesthetic and decide to decorate a room with street signs I legally purchased at a premium?

sushid 9y ago

> If you stole a candy at age 14 from a local store, it is surprise to label you "criminal" at age 35 no? Where is this point coming from? If you got caught stealing candy at age 14, you're not going to become a convicted felon. NEVER. When you commit an armed robbery, I think it's fair to label someone as a former criminal.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vkou 9y ago
What about burglary? Grand theft auto? Stealing bikes? Starting a barfight? Serial shoplifting? Downloading a few million documents from JSTOR? Being a street pharmaceutical sales representative? [1] Missing child support payments (Jail time definitely helps with your prospects of making the next payment)? Do all of these brand you with the mark of Cain, for the rest of your life? If so, why do we even let criminals out of prison? Haven't they served their time? [1] One of my acquaintances went from being a drug dealer to a very successful franchise owner (I met him after he made the transition.) Prison wasn't the catalyst for him, but getting shot at by a competitor was. Would we all had been better off if he were shut off from 'good jobs' for the rest of his life?
mulmen 9y ago
I don't think you can reasonably claim that a person who steals candy at age 14 will never be a convicted felon, especially when labels tend to stick with people and influence their later life choices and situation. Where is the benefit to society in labeling someone a criminal for the rest of their lives? Are you arguing that prison ought to have no rehabilitating effect?
btilly 9y ago
However if you are caught at 14 with a naked picture of a 13 year old classmate on your phone, you'll become a convicted sex offender for life. This is not at all hypothetical. I've seen estimates that 1/4 of all convicted sex offenders were themselves minors at the time of conviction, and 14 is the age at which you are most likely to become a registered sex offender. Which will for the rest of your life affect where you live, what jobs you can take, and force you to be registered on a database where your neighbors can see that you're awful but get no useful information about your crime. As a parent of pre-teens I'm far more concerned about them being caught up in this life-destroying lottery than I am about, say, their being kidnapped if they are so unwise as to talk to strangers.
- Clubber 9y ago
  I believe a teen can be convicted of distributing child pornography for sending a picture of themselves to someone. The legal system terrifies me.
donarb 9y ago
How about at 67? A US citizen living overseas is not being told that he can't come to the US because of crimes he committed over 50 years ago. https://www.salon.com/2017/10/16/alvin-queen-american-born-jazz-artist-denied-entry-for-brush-in-with-law-50-years-ago/?ref=hvper.com https://www.salon.com/2017/10/16/alvin-queen-american-born-j...
- bdowling 9y ago
  "Funny thing, I gave up my U.S. passport to make life simpler at tax time." (from linked article) It seems that he renounced his citizenship in order to avoid paying U.S. income taxes, so I don't think you can call him a "US citizen living overseas" anymore.

jdmichal 9y ago

Interesting thought experiment: What if records were sealed by default once judgement has been satisfied? Or, rather, do as much as possible within the legal system to restore the individual's previous reputation and status. Some version of this exists for juvenile records already, because we recognize that people can grow and learn. I could also see arguments for allowing the above for misdemeanors but not felonies.

anigbrowl 9y ago
A good approach; the 'ban the box' campaign that aims to prevent questions about past felonies on employment applications is a step in this direction.
Clubber 9y ago
>I could also see arguments for allowing the above for misdemeanors but not felonies. You'd be surprised at how many petty offenses are considered felonies. Shortly after high school, a friend of mine took a stop sign and put it in his apartment. A few years later, the police came for some reason (he might have gotten robbed) and they saw the stop sign. He was arrested on a felony charge because the stop sign cost more than $500. (the second jaw drop is the stop sign company duped taxpayers at the tune of $500 a sign).
- KGIII 9y ago
  Signs are very expensive. They require special paint that has to reflect a specific amount of light. They must be of fairly exact specs, requiring proprietary fonts, and are often low volume and customized. There is also the installation, which must conform to various specifications and is limited in placement, meaning a certain level of expertise is required. In short, don't get caught stealing signs. They are expensive and it pisses people off. Seriously, that paint is very expensive, as is the coating over it.
  - mulmen 9y ago
    What if I like the aesthetic and decide to decorate a room with street signs I legally purchased at a premium?