7 ms·

This shouldn't be shocking and should be more common.

• joering2 9y ago
  I agree with that. We supposed to live in society where people can make mistakes, learn from them and move on. If you stole a candy at age 14 from a local store, it is surprise to label you "criminal" at age 35 no? Just because someone did crime and did time, doesn't mean we should continue treating them like criminal.
  • sushid 9y ago
    > If you stole a candy at age 14 from a local store, it is surprise to label you "criminal" at age 35 no? Where is this point coming from? If you got caught stealing candy at age 14, you're not going to become a convicted felon. NEVER. When you commit an armed robbery, I think it's fair to label someone as a former criminal.
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    • vkou 9y ago
      What about burglary? Grand theft auto? Stealing bikes? Starting a barfight? Serial shoplifting? Downloading a few million documents from JSTOR? Being a street pharmaceutical sales representative? [1] Missing child support payments (Jail time definitely helps with your prospects of making the next payment)? Do all of these brand you with the mark of Cain, for the rest of your life? If so, why do we even let criminals out of prison? Haven't they served their time? [1] One of my acquaintances went from being a drug dealer to a very successful franchise owner (I met him after he made the transition.) Prison wasn't the catalyst for him, but getting shot at by a competitor was. Would we all had been better off if he were shut off from 'good jobs' for the rest of his life?
    • mulmen 9y ago
      I don't think you can reasonably claim that a person who steals candy at age 14 will never be a convicted felon, especially when labels tend to stick with people and influence their later life choices and situation. Where is the benefit to society in labeling someone a criminal for the rest of their lives? Are you arguing that prison ought to have no rehabilitating effect?
    • btilly 9y ago
      However if you are caught at 14 with a naked picture of a 13 year old classmate on your phone, you'll become a convicted sex offender for life. This is not at all hypothetical. I've seen estimates that 1/4 of all convicted sex offenders were themselves minors at the time of conviction, and 14 is the age at which you are most likely to become a registered sex offender. Which will for the rest of your life affect where you live, what jobs you can take, and force you to be registered on a database where your neighbors can see that you're awful but get no useful information about your crime. As a parent of pre-teens I'm far more concerned about them being caught up in this life-destroying lottery than I am about, say, their being kidnapped if they are so unwise as to talk to strangers.
      • Clubber 9y ago
        I believe a teen can be convicted of distributing child pornography for sending a picture of themselves to someone. The legal system terrifies me.
    • donarb 9y ago
      How about at 67? A US citizen living overseas is not being told that he can't come to the US because of crimes he committed over 50 years ago. https://www.salon.com/2017/10/16/alvin-queen-american-born-jazz-artist-denied-entry-for-brush-in-with-law-50-years-ago/?ref=hvper.com https://www.salon.com/2017/10/16/alvin-queen-american-born-j...
      • bdowling 9y ago
        "Funny thing, I gave up my U.S. passport to make life simpler at tax time." (from linked article) It seems that he renounced his citizenship in order to avoid paying U.S. income taxes, so I don't think you can call him a "US citizen living overseas" anymore.
  • jdmichal 9y ago
    Interesting thought experiment: What if records were sealed by default once judgement has been satisfied? Or, rather, do as much as possible within the legal system to restore the individual's previous reputation and status. Some version of this exists for juvenile records already, because we recognize that people can grow and learn. I could also see arguments for allowing the above for misdemeanors but not felonies.
    • anigbrowl 9y ago
      A good approach; the 'ban the box' campaign that aims to prevent questions about past felonies on employment applications is a step in this direction.
    • Clubber 9y ago
      >I could also see arguments for allowing the above for misdemeanors but not felonies. You'd be surprised at how many petty offenses are considered felonies. Shortly after high school, a friend of mine took a stop sign and put it in his apartment. A few years later, the police came for some reason (he might have gotten robbed) and they saw the stop sign. He was arrested on a felony charge because the stop sign cost more than $500. (the second jaw drop is the stop sign company duped taxpayers at the tune of $500 a sign).
      • KGIII 9y ago
        Signs are very expensive. They require special paint that has to reflect a specific amount of light. They must be of fairly exact specs, requiring proprietary fonts, and are often low volume and customized. There is also the installation, which must conform to various specifications and is limited in placement, meaning a certain level of expertise is required. In short, don't get caught stealing signs. They are expensive and it pisses people off. Seriously, that paint is very expensive, as is the coating over it.
        • mulmen 9y ago
          What if I like the aesthetic and decide to decorate a room with street signs I legally purchased at a premium?
• plandis 9y ago
  If your idea is that it should be shocking that a former felon becomes a successful and lawful member of society we are in agreement. I think it’s improbably to expect felons to write legal briefs that the SCOTUS examines and it’s also improbable to expect felons to become law professors are a prestigious law school. Lots of lawyers will work their entire lives and never have either of those two situations.
  • mulmen 9y ago
    I read the GP comment as "A story of redemption should not be uncommon among prisoners". Our goal as a society should be to make that the norm.
• aaron-lebo 9y ago
  How common should it be? The overlap between convicted felon (one extreme of crime) and Georgetown professor (do you know how hard it is to get into Georgetown law as a student?) is really, really small. If you are saying that you wish there were more extraordinary people in the world, nobody is stopping anyone from doing that.
  • mulmen 9y ago
    Why do you think that number is so small? How many extraordinary people have had their lives ruined by being asked to conquer one too many obstacles? This story shows that there is potential in prisoners and despite the deck being stacked against him this one person succeeded. How many others would have done the same if they received support instead of discouragement?
    • aaron-lebo 9y ago
      It's small because Georgetown law professors are the most elite of elite in society. You could do a random sample of non-prisoners and you'd get as many potential Georgetown law professors as in prison. I don't doubt that there are a lot of prisoners that would thrive with encouragement, but you also aren't being realistic: the people who end up prison often end up there because they made a series of very bad choices which were the result of being raised in an unfavorable environment. Some people in prison will never be rehabilitated and they certainly aren't going to became Georgetown law professors. Prison tends to select for people who aren't law school material, so the likelihood is not surprisingly very low. It's not something that can be fixed by pleading to the better angels of our nature.
      • cubano 9y ago
        I've been to prison twice and I was raised in a very favorable environment. These incarcerations have killed my career and ruined very important relationships. My crimes? Both were rather low level drug charges where I was guilty of deep carelessness and rather bad luck more then anything else. I guess you can call them a "series of bad choices", but only if you think overzealous US drug laws are a good thing.
• Ccecil 9y ago
  It is difficult to do quite a few things in the US once you are convicted of a felony. You are limited on grants, student loans, SBA loans and most programs in areas like the medical field will not even accept people with criminal backgrounds at all due to the low likelihood of finding employment post training (when there is a waiting list felons will be at the bottom). So add on top of that the fact that most people won't hire a felon...where do you go. Difficult to find gainful employment, less chance of training and then you are limited in finding funding for a small business. Edit: In this world to In the US Also, housing. Having a felony can exclude you from rentals entirely. Most property management companies will not rent to felons regardless of time since last conviction.
  • mschuster91 9y ago
    > Having a felony can exclude you from rentals entirely Thanks to European data protection laws at least this kind of discrimination is illegal over here. But the rest is valid in EU too, it might not be an express "we don't hire felons"/"we don't loan to felons", but good luck trying to "cover up" a stint in jail. A few months, maybe a year tops might be excusable as "I went to India and found myself" (and still if your employer ever finds out you doctored your CV, he's eligible to fire you at an instant, even in Germany)... but anything above a year, much less a decade in prison, and you're SOL for anything but literally mowing lawns. And of course being in jail also does nothing to help your credit, quite on the contrary - lawyer bills might send you into bankruptcy too, so you're stuck with no job, no money, no credit and next to no chance to get back on your feed without serious external help - the chances are higher if you're white and speak the language, though. There's a reason why recidivism rates are so damn high, and a massive systematic underfunding of the "after-jail-services" is a huge part of it.