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I think it's fair to demonstrate that you actually know how to teach adult humans, regardless of the subject matter. A license is a fair standard to measure. M

I think it's fair to demonstrate that you actually know how to teach adult humans, regardless of the subject matter. A license is a fair standard to measure. Maybe the license criteria need to be modernized?

wallace_f 9y ago
It is incredibly annoying that access to education is held behind barriers of entry that discriminate based on socioconomics and race. Education has fallen behind industry demands and global standards. The industry has already failed this test of "demonstrating they actually know how to teach adult humans." 1. Education industry fails to meet industry demands and to offer fair, affordable education So, 2: Innovators ask, "If it pleases the crown, we would like to be allowed to try to fill this gap and offer an education that people can voluntarily pay for if they desire." 3. Only if we say so. Prove to us you can teach adult humans, peon. 4. But you already failed to do this? And you had the advantage of taxpayer dollars funding you. Why do you have authority? The school should be punished and pay compensation for lying. However, we should not hand over the right to offer education to a government that, given the opportunity to provide it, failed the competency test to "actually teach adult humans" already. Any accredidation should be voluntary.
- cbhl 9y ago
  Anyone can teach. Just look at the Khan Academy -- Sal started by just posting YouTube videos of his voice over Microsoft Paint. The thing that is held behind a barrier is issuing a credential. And it seems reasonable that someone generating diplomas (or claims they can teach you enough to get you a job) should itself be held to accreditation or a standards body. But we (software developers in industry) could be making that standards body, rather than sitting on our butts and waiting for the government to do it.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    I agree. I don't think government is useless, but private industry is much better at innovation and meeting consumer demand. A story everyone speaking of education reform should be cognizant of is that of Jaime Escalante. Another issue aside from innovating to meet demand: Personally, if I want to sit down tomorrow and earn a degree in a subject, I don't know why I can't just self study and take exams to do this. To me, anyone in the world being able to earn the equivalent of a Harvard degree appears to be the ultimate policy in dismantling inequality and advancing opportunity. Why should Harvard degrees be limited to a small number of people? They really shouldn't.
    - cat199 9y ago
      > take exams to do this and who manufactures these magical exams you speak of, and on what authority?
      - wallace_f 9y ago
        They're not magical. If I want to be a doctor, there are two primary sets of exams I need to take: 1-the MCAT, and 2-the USMLE. Both sets are managed by non profits. There should be no reason why a poor minority, boy or girl, struggling to make ends meet in a rough neighborhood cannot get online, self study, and one day go and take a seat for these exams. In fact, this should be subsidized by government more than university classes--it is far more efficient and more fair, just better overall. So these are the primary tests, both in a literal and figurative sense, which establish ability and competency to practice medicine. After this point, getting the residency requirements and practical lab skills is just a formality. If what it comes down to is basically some exams, we should be able to give more people access to that. Especially in STEM fields.
        KekDemaga 9y ago
        An objective test removes the power of picking winners and losers from the academics, they will never allow that to happen.
        KGIII 9y ago
        Wait... You think someone should be allowed to self-study, take a test, and be a medical doctor? You can do this with some professions, but I'd like to think my medical doctor has had actual experience with living people and cadavers.
        wallace_f 9y ago
        Read my post again. Someone should be able to circumvent the academic complex's monopoly on credentials, as long as they can demonstrate the same aptitude and proficiency. At that point, as I said, the hospital training is just a formality with some exceptions. Surgeons obviously need to demonstrate dexterity and composure. Candidates need to show up to work on time, etc.
  - xapata 9y ago
    Not everyone can teach well. I've also found that folks who have never had a good teacher in a particular topic don't realize how much disparity there can be.
- earthtolazlo 9y ago
  Innovators == scammers Most law schools lie about their graduate employment prospects as well. If the risk of being caught times the penalty is smaller than the increased revenue, why not fudge the numbers?
- sjellis 9y ago
  "The school should be punished and pay compensation for lying. However, we should not hand over the right to offer education to a government that, given the opportunity to provide it, failed the competency test to "actually teach adult humans" already." "The government" can only do the job that elected politicians allow it to do: the dedication and professionalism of front-line staff can easily be wasted by poor strategy and questionable agendas from the people at the top. Source: 10 years experience working in education.
ptero 9y ago
> I think it's fair to demonstrate that you actually know how to teach adult humans, regardless of the subject matter. This is way too generic. To grant a standardized degree (e.g., BS, MBA, PhD), sure. As a generic, "show me that you are qualified to teach adults before I let you" I could not disagree more. Adults can decide what they want to learn (karate or Python, basket weaving or machine learning) and where they want to go. The state's role, if there is one, should be to inform, not limit the options. My 2c.
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  The state's role, if there is one, should be to inform, not limit the options No opinion about this. But taxpayer's money should not be used to enable schools that do not provide an adequate education. No one is better off with a diploma from ITT Technical Institute or Corinthian College, there is no good reason for places like ITT or Corinthian to exist and even less reason to support them with public money.
ajmurmann 9y ago
Why is that needed for this particular field though? I don't have to have a license to be hired as a software developer or manager. I'd go to a bootcamp because their graduates get good jobs and I've heard good things about the experience, not because they got a license from someone.

wallace_f 9y ago

It is incredibly annoying that access to education is held behind barriers of entry that discriminate based on socioconomics and race. Education has fallen behind industry demands and global standards. The industry has already failed this test of "demonstrating they actually know how to teach adult humans." 1. Education industry fails to meet industry demands and to offer fair, affordable education So, 2: Innovators ask, "If it pleases the crown, we would like to be allowed to try to fill this gap and offer an education that people can voluntarily pay for if they desire." 3. Only if we say so. Prove to us you can teach adult humans, peon. 4. But you already failed to do this? And you had the advantage of taxpayer dollars funding you. Why do you have authority? The school should be punished and pay compensation for lying. However, we should not hand over the right to offer education to a government that, given the opportunity to provide it, failed the competency test to "actually teach adult humans" already. Any accredidation should be voluntary.

cbhl 9y ago
Anyone can teach. Just look at the Khan Academy -- Sal started by just posting YouTube videos of his voice over Microsoft Paint. The thing that is held behind a barrier is issuing a credential. And it seems reasonable that someone generating diplomas (or claims they can teach you enough to get you a job) should itself be held to accreditation or a standards body. But we (software developers in industry) could be making that standards body, rather than sitting on our butts and waiting for the government to do it.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  I agree. I don't think government is useless, but private industry is much better at innovation and meeting consumer demand. A story everyone speaking of education reform should be cognizant of is that of Jaime Escalante. Another issue aside from innovating to meet demand: Personally, if I want to sit down tomorrow and earn a degree in a subject, I don't know why I can't just self study and take exams to do this. To me, anyone in the world being able to earn the equivalent of a Harvard degree appears to be the ultimate policy in dismantling inequality and advancing opportunity. Why should Harvard degrees be limited to a small number of people? They really shouldn't.
  - cat199 9y ago
    > take exams to do this and who manufactures these magical exams you speak of, and on what authority?
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      They're not magical. If I want to be a doctor, there are two primary sets of exams I need to take: 1-the MCAT, and 2-the USMLE. Both sets are managed by non profits. There should be no reason why a poor minority, boy or girl, struggling to make ends meet in a rough neighborhood cannot get online, self study, and one day go and take a seat for these exams. In fact, this should be subsidized by government more than university classes--it is far more efficient and more fair, just better overall. So these are the primary tests, both in a literal and figurative sense, which establish ability and competency to practice medicine. After this point, getting the residency requirements and practical lab skills is just a formality. If what it comes down to is basically some exams, we should be able to give more people access to that. Especially in STEM fields.
      - KekDemaga 9y ago
        An objective test removes the power of picking winners and losers from the academics, they will never allow that to happen.
      - KGIII 9y ago
        Wait... You think someone should be allowed to self-study, take a test, and be a medical doctor? You can do this with some professions, but I'd like to think my medical doctor has had actual experience with living people and cadavers.
        wallace_f 9y ago
        Read my post again. Someone should be able to circumvent the academic complex's monopoly on credentials, as long as they can demonstrate the same aptitude and proficiency. At that point, as I said, the hospital training is just a formality with some exceptions. Surgeons obviously need to demonstrate dexterity and composure. Candidates need to show up to work on time, etc.
- xapata 9y ago
  Not everyone can teach well. I've also found that folks who have never had a good teacher in a particular topic don't realize how much disparity there can be.
earthtolazlo 9y ago
Innovators == scammers Most law schools lie about their graduate employment prospects as well. If the risk of being caught times the penalty is smaller than the increased revenue, why not fudge the numbers?
sjellis 9y ago
"The school should be punished and pay compensation for lying. However, we should not hand over the right to offer education to a government that, given the opportunity to provide it, failed the competency test to "actually teach adult humans" already." "The government" can only do the job that elected politicians allow it to do: the dedication and professionalism of front-line staff can easily be wasted by poor strategy and questionable agendas from the people at the top. Source: 10 years experience working in education.

ptero 9y ago

> I think it's fair to demonstrate that you actually know how to teach adult humans, regardless of the subject matter. This is way too generic. To grant a standardized degree (e.g., BS, MBA, PhD), sure. As a generic, "show me that you are qualified to teach adults before I let you" I could not disagree more. Adults can decide what they want to learn (karate or Python, basket weaving or machine learning) and where they want to go. The state's role, if there is one, should be to inform, not limit the options. My 2c.

HarryHirsch 9y ago
The state's role, if there is one, should be to inform, not limit the options No opinion about this. But taxpayer's money should not be used to enable schools that do not provide an adequate education. No one is better off with a diploma from ITT Technical Institute or Corinthian College, there is no good reason for places like ITT or Corinthian to exist and even less reason to support them with public money.

ajmurmann 9y ago

Why is that needed for this particular field though? I don't have to have a license to be hired as a software developer or manager. I'd go to a bootcamp because their graduates get good jobs and I've heard good things about the experience, not because they got a license from someone.