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I know some folks who graduated from Galvanize's Data Science program. They were told that historically 90% of graduates find jobs in 6 months. She is 6 months

I know some folks who graduated from Galvanize's Data Science program. They were told that historically 90% of graduates find jobs in 6 months. She is 6 months out, and only half of her cohort has a job.

csours 9y ago
* Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  Sure, but you've got bigger problems when... * Past performance may actually be totally made up.
madenine 9y ago
I did a data science program with another org, and while I had an extremely positive experience and got a great job out of it - I do think the sales pitch of these programs can be very misleading, especially to those coming in with less experience. They would have you believe that you can come in with little to no relevant experience, spend 3 months learning ML in python and walk out with a job as a Data Scientist - when the reality is what job you can land post-bootcamp is probably going to be based on what experience you had going in. A couple years of experience in analytics, research, finance, or similar plus a DS bootcamp will lead to a very different outcome than 1-2 years of sales or retail + the same bootcamp. But that's not a great sales pitch from the bootcamp org, so its "in 3 Months you'll be a data scientist working on cutting edge ML/AI!" instead of "in 3 months you can probably get an entry level data scientist role if you have 2+ years of relevant experience, or if you're completely new to this a data analyst job where if you work hard and keep your skills up in the mean time you can get a better gig in a year or two!".
brian_spiering 9y ago
Galvanize just updated their public placement statistics. They are currently at 81% - https://www.galvanize.com/san-francisco/data-science#outcomes https://www.galvanize.com/san-francisco/data-science#outcome...
minimaxir 9y ago
From my own experiences looking for a job in SF (where Galvanize has a strong DS base), full-time Data Science positions typically require a Masters/PhD, even if it is stated as optional on the application. I did meet a Galvanize DS grad who was working as a DS at a large SF startup...in a probationary role created explicitly for bootcamp graduates. (I had applied for the same startup with a strong referral and was eventually ghosted due to lack of Masters/Phd)
jerrytsai 9y ago
As someone who attended that program, the statistics are rosier than they're reporting. I have examined the employment claims, and know the program pretty well. I believe the 90% claim, historically, is close to valid. A fairer representation might have been 5 in 6 (83.3%), but it was pretty close to the mark. You can see where people in the early cohorts are working, and the success rate is very high. What has changed? (1) Job market is more competitive. There are more "graduates" of "boot camp"s out there, as well as graduates of accredited degree programs. (2) Admissions standards have dropped. With more boot camps, there are more students attending boot camps everywhere. Galvanize used to admit half as many students. Correspondingly, less qualified applicants are attending boot camps than before. More than half the reason prior Galvanize graduates succeeded in obtaining data-scientific positions was because many of them were already very well qualified for many STEM jobs _before_ entering the program. (3) Hiring standards have tightened. With a body of data scientists out there, organizations don't need to hire newbies. Boot camps can augment your résumé, but can't substitute for lack of relevant experience. A data science bootcamp will have great difficulty in magically taking a person from 0 to a data scientist job offer in the absence of relevant experience. Many of the people I've seen struggle to obtain employment had thin résumés before entering the program or had weak interview skills.
- huac 9y ago
  The 90% number might be valid historically, but as we all know, the more important number is your chance moving forward.
- nether 9y ago
  I've heard the cold, hard truth about DS bootcamps is that your job prospects after completing one will be about the same as they were prior to the bootcamp.

csours 9y ago

* Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results

ceejayoz 9y ago
Sure, but you've got bigger problems when... * Past performance may actually be totally made up.

madenine 9y ago

I did a data science program with another org, and while I had an extremely positive experience and got a great job out of it - I do think the sales pitch of these programs can be very misleading, especially to those coming in with less experience. They would have you believe that you can come in with little to no relevant experience, spend 3 months learning ML in python and walk out with a job as a Data Scientist - when the reality is what job you can land post-bootcamp is probably going to be based on what experience you had going in. A couple years of experience in analytics, research, finance, or similar plus a DS bootcamp will lead to a very different outcome than 1-2 years of sales or retail + the same bootcamp. But that's not a great sales pitch from the bootcamp org, so its "in 3 Months you'll be a data scientist working on cutting edge ML/AI!" instead of "in 3 months you can probably get an entry level data scientist role if you have 2+ years of relevant experience, or if you're completely new to this a data analyst job where if you work hard and keep your skills up in the mean time you can get a better gig in a year or two!".

brian_spiering 9y ago

Galvanize just updated their public placement statistics. They are currently at 81% - https://www.galvanize.com/san-francisco/data-science#outcomes https://www.galvanize.com/san-francisco/data-science#outcome...

minimaxir 9y ago

From my own experiences looking for a job in SF (where Galvanize has a strong DS base), full-time Data Science positions typically require a Masters/PhD, even if it is stated as optional on the application. I did meet a Galvanize DS grad who was working as a DS at a large SF startup...in a probationary role created explicitly for bootcamp graduates. (I had applied for the same startup with a strong referral and was eventually ghosted due to lack of Masters/Phd)

jerrytsai 9y ago

As someone who attended that program, the statistics are rosier than they're reporting. I have examined the employment claims, and know the program pretty well. I believe the 90% claim, historically, is close to valid. A fairer representation might have been 5 in 6 (83.3%), but it was pretty close to the mark. You can see where people in the early cohorts are working, and the success rate is very high. What has changed? (1) Job market is more competitive. There are more "graduates" of "boot camp"s out there, as well as graduates of accredited degree programs. (2) Admissions standards have dropped. With more boot camps, there are more students attending boot camps everywhere. Galvanize used to admit half as many students. Correspondingly, less qualified applicants are attending boot camps than before. More than half the reason prior Galvanize graduates succeeded in obtaining data-scientific positions was because many of them were already very well qualified for many STEM jobs _before_ entering the program. (3) Hiring standards have tightened. With a body of data scientists out there, organizations don't need to hire newbies. Boot camps can augment your résumé, but can't substitute for lack of relevant experience. A data science bootcamp will have great difficulty in magically taking a person from 0 to a data scientist job offer in the absence of relevant experience. Many of the people I've seen struggle to obtain employment had thin résumés before entering the program or had weak interview skills.

huac 9y ago
The 90% number might be valid historically, but as we all know, the more important number is your chance moving forward.
nether 9y ago
I've heard the cold, hard truth about DS bootcamps is that your job prospects after completing one will be about the same as they were prior to the bootcamp.