4 ms·

It doesn't take double the budget to support IE and the vast majority of frontend work isn't in grid, flex, and ES8.

nailer 9y ago
It takes double the amount of effort (a conservative estimate) to use floats, clearfixes, overflow side effect hacks, wrappers and various other hacks for simple layout. It takes double the amount of effort (a conservative estimate) for async.waterfall, endless .then() chaining, callback hell and various other techniques to work around lack of `await` It takes double the amount of work (a conservative estimate) to do some kind of weird Flash thing because your browser doesn't support HTML5 clipboard. ...amongst a massive amount of other tech, all of which is supported on current browsers. You don't see the cost since you're already paying it by avoiding current frontend techniques. But unless someone else is paying that cost you're giving away your time for free by supporting IE. (Of course, you should support Edge amongst every other major browser)
- strictnein 9y ago
  You've sure spent a lot of time convincing yourself that you're right and apparently doing a lot of googling finding the random stuff that IE11 doesn't quite support natively, with your constant updates. Clipboard API? really? as if that's some milestone in browser dev that takes weeks to overcome. And who's still messing with floats, clearfixes, etc? Your idea of IE11 support apparently revolves around people using the worst types of tech and coding practices, so I'm not surprised you think it takes "conservatively" 2x the time.
  - nailer 9y ago
    > apparently doing a lot of googling finding the random stuff that IE11 doesn't quite support natively Do you genuinely think the need to lay stuff out in a grid or manage callback workflows is exotic? Have you done any front end development? > Your idea of IE11 support apparently revolves around people using the worst types of tech and coding practices No. As written in the comment you're replying to, it revolves around the huge gulf between IE11 support for current tech when compared to Edge/Chrome/Safari/Firefox. Some links: From https://rachelandrew.co.uk/archives/2016/11/26/should-i-try-to-use-the-ie-implementation-of-css-grid-layout/ https://rachelandrew.co.uk/archives/2016/11/26/should-i-try-... > "However, even where similar properties exist in the two versions of the specification, the capabilities of the older spec and implementation are very different to the new one. This means you can’t simply run Autoprefixer and consider the job done." The flex implementation is similarly broken. https://github.com/philipwalton/flexbugs https://github.com/philipwalton/flexbugs http://caniuse.com/#search=await http://caniuse.com/#search=await The only reason I mention clipboard (despite being less common) is we use it on our own site and the cost of implementing a second implementation in Flash fix is ridiculous.
- thrownaway954 9y ago
  You need to calm down. We're talking browsers here, not cancer.
- askmike 9y ago
  I don't know any website that is using stuff like `await` in the frontend without transpiling it down via babel first. For both the css and clipboard problems, there are loads of well known and supported libraries if supporting IE is in scope of your project.
  - nailer 9y ago
    Babel's been great, but currently most browsers don't need it - the only one that does is the topic of this thread. Flex and grid are hard to emulate. So is clipboard.

It takes double the amount of effort (a conservative estimate) to use floats, clearfixes, overflow side effect hacks, wrappers and various other hacks for simple layout. It takes double the amount of effort (a conservative estimate) for async.waterfall, endless .then() chaining, callback hell and various other techniques to work around lack of `await` It takes double the amount of work (a conservative estimate) to do some kind of weird Flash thing because your browser doesn't support HTML5 clipboard. ...amongst a massive amount of other tech, all of which is supported on current browsers. You don't see the cost since you're already paying it by avoiding current frontend techniques. But unless someone else is paying that cost you're giving away your time for free by supporting IE. (Of course, you should support Edge amongst every other major browser)

strictnein 9y ago
You've sure spent a lot of time convincing yourself that you're right and apparently doing a lot of googling finding the random stuff that IE11 doesn't quite support natively, with your constant updates. Clipboard API? really? as if that's some milestone in browser dev that takes weeks to overcome. And who's still messing with floats, clearfixes, etc? Your idea of IE11 support apparently revolves around people using the worst types of tech and coding practices, so I'm not surprised you think it takes "conservatively" 2x the time.
- nailer 9y ago
  > apparently doing a lot of googling finding the random stuff that IE11 doesn't quite support natively Do you genuinely think the need to lay stuff out in a grid or manage callback workflows is exotic? Have you done any front end development? > Your idea of IE11 support apparently revolves around people using the worst types of tech and coding practices No. As written in the comment you're replying to, it revolves around the huge gulf between IE11 support for current tech when compared to Edge/Chrome/Safari/Firefox. Some links: From https://rachelandrew.co.uk/archives/2016/11/26/should-i-try-to-use-the-ie-implementation-of-css-grid-layout/ https://rachelandrew.co.uk/archives/2016/11/26/should-i-try-... > "However, even where similar properties exist in the two versions of the specification, the capabilities of the older spec and implementation are very different to the new one. This means you can’t simply run Autoprefixer and consider the job done." The flex implementation is similarly broken. https://github.com/philipwalton/flexbugs https://github.com/philipwalton/flexbugs http://caniuse.com/#search=await http://caniuse.com/#search=await The only reason I mention clipboard (despite being less common) is we use it on our own site and the cost of implementing a second implementation in Flash fix is ridiculous.
thrownaway954 9y ago
You need to calm down. We're talking browsers here, not cancer.
askmike 9y ago
I don't know any website that is using stuff like `await` in the frontend without transpiling it down via babel first. For both the css and clipboard problems, there are loads of well known and supported libraries if supporting IE is in scope of your project.
- nailer 9y ago
  Babel's been great, but currently most browsers don't need it - the only one that does is the topic of this thread. Flex and grid are hard to emulate. So is clipboard.