4 ms·

And the reason for throttling to reduce heat is to maintain stability and not damage anything. Otherwise it wouldn't have mattered if the CPU went to 200c.

by tjoff 9y ago

laumars 9y ago
Sorry I meant to say "power draw" (too late to edit but the part when I said "stable when overclocked providing you're pushing enough amps to the unit" should have been a clue). It should also be noted that the examples you gave were not heat related stability issues. The random crashes and USB devices not working symptoms are due to the device being starved of power due to the increased power requirement of the overclocked ARM and people using power adapters based solely on the voltage rating rather than checking what amps it can push. The Raspberry Foundation blogged about underclocking it's ARM chip to reduce the required power draw rather than preventing it from overheating. This was with the first release of the Pi - back when they ran a single core ARM CPU. But the same problems are evidenced by your example of USB devices failing to function despite the ARM chip still running full speed (when the Pi's CPU overheats it should throttle itself). In fact you can "overclock" the Pi even without a heatsink if you use the right power adapter. Though obviously the harder you push the chip, the more you'll want cooling so it doesn't self throttle nor do more damage. Anyway, to go back to the point you're ignoring: if raw CPU grunt is your end goal then the Pi isn't really the right dev board for the job - overclocked or not.
- tjoff 9y ago
  What? I have not given any such examples. That is a straw man. You entirely correct that underclocking has been used to gain stability issues that have been caused by poor power supplies. But has nothing to do with throttling, heat related issues or this article. I'm "ignoring" that because I have not (and I have not seen anyone else) suggested that raw CPU grunt is the end goal... I would have imagined the end goal for this particular use case is availability. Microsoft want's people to play with their solutions and the reason to target the Pi is because of availability and familiarity at a very low price point. It is the single most popular and accessible device they could have adapted this project for. For that purpose I can not imagine any better hardware than the Raspberry Pi.
  - laumars 9y ago
    > What? I have not given any such examples. That is a straw man. Sorry it must have been someone elses post. Full of cold at the moment so bare with me :-/ > You entirely correct that underclocking has been used to gain stability issues that have been caused by poor power supplies. But has nothing to do with throttling, heat related issues or this article. I wasn't suggesting that either. I think we are both arguing the same points badly tbh. > I would have imagined the end goal for this particular use case is availability. That was my assumption as well but I think their approach is a little confusing. They talk about the ELL framework being designed for "resource constrained platforms and small single-board computers, like Raspberry Pi, Arduino, and micro:bit." yet then go on to discuss appending a fan to the Pi in a way that kind of defeat the purpose of running a Pi. It makes it very confusing when read any one of their articles in isolation as I had done initially. In any case, it's good to see Microsoft continuing to support Linux.

And the reason for throttling to reduce heat is to maintain stability and not damage anything. Otherwise it wouldn't have mattered if the CPU went to 200c.

by tjoff 9y ago

And the reason for throttling to reduce heat is to maintain stability and not damage anything. Otherwise it wouldn't have mattered if the CPU went to 200c.

laumars 9y ago

Sorry I meant to say "power draw" (too late to edit but the part when I said "stable when overclocked providing you're pushing enough amps to the unit" should have been a clue). It should also be noted that the examples you gave were not heat related stability issues. The random crashes and USB devices not working symptoms are due to the device being starved of power due to the increased power requirement of the overclocked ARM and people using power adapters based solely on the voltage rating rather than checking what amps it can push. The Raspberry Foundation blogged about underclocking it's ARM chip to reduce the required power draw rather than preventing it from overheating. This was with the first release of the Pi - back when they ran a single core ARM CPU. But the same problems are evidenced by your example of USB devices failing to function despite the ARM chip still running full speed (when the Pi's CPU overheats it should throttle itself). In fact you can "overclock" the Pi even without a heatsink if you use the right power adapter. Though obviously the harder you push the chip, the more you'll want cooling so it doesn't self throttle nor do more damage. Anyway, to go back to the point you're ignoring: if raw CPU grunt is your end goal then the Pi isn't really the right dev board for the job - overclocked or not.

tjoff 9y ago
What? I have not given any such examples. That is a straw man. You entirely correct that underclocking has been used to gain stability issues that have been caused by poor power supplies. But has nothing to do with throttling, heat related issues or this article. I'm "ignoring" that because I have not (and I have not seen anyone else) suggested that raw CPU grunt is the end goal... I would have imagined the end goal for this particular use case is availability. Microsoft want's people to play with their solutions and the reason to target the Pi is because of availability and familiarity at a very low price point. It is the single most popular and accessible device they could have adapted this project for. For that purpose I can not imagine any better hardware than the Raspberry Pi.
- laumars 9y ago
  > What? I have not given any such examples. That is a straw man. Sorry it must have been someone elses post. Full of cold at the moment so bare with me :-/ > You entirely correct that underclocking has been used to gain stability issues that have been caused by poor power supplies. But has nothing to do with throttling, heat related issues or this article. I wasn't suggesting that either. I think we are both arguing the same points badly tbh. > I would have imagined the end goal for this particular use case is availability. That was my assumption as well but I think their approach is a little confusing. They talk about the ELL framework being designed for "resource constrained platforms and small single-board computers, like Raspberry Pi, Arduino, and micro:bit." yet then go on to discuss appending a fan to the Pi in a way that kind of defeat the purpose of running a Pi. It makes it very confusing when read any one of their articles in isolation as I had done initially. In any case, it's good to see Microsoft continuing to support Linux.