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The Supreme Court Will Decide If the US Can Access Anyone's Data on Earth

30 points by runesoerensen 9y ago

dingo_bat 9y ago
Isn't the NSA already doing this the best they can? Kind of an irrelevant thing for the SC to worry about.
manfredo 9y ago
More specifically, the Supreme Court is deciding whether the US can compel companies with a US presence to hand over data stored in other countries. "Anyone's data on Earth" is a significant exaggeration. It's not like the US is going to demand Putin's emails (at least not through the courts, who knows what they're trying to do clandestinely).
- freedomben 9y ago
  I'm not certain it is a significant exaggeration, nor am I certain the US wouldn't demand Putin's email :-) In practice you're probably right, but the idea of leaving things up to the discretion of politicians, particularly the ones we tend to elect, terrifies me.
freedomben 9y ago
This will have immense ramifications on the ability of US companies to do business overseas. Even if there are no legal barriers erected (which I doubt), there will unquestionably be marketing barriers. If there were a company I did business with that had a home-country ruling like this, I would definitely think twice about how much I trust their government.
- jorvi 9y ago
  There already are legal barriers? Even if the Supreme Court decides this is legal, EU and Irish law make it illegal, and Microsoft will be in extremely deep shit if they actually share the data.
  - freedomben 9y ago
    That adds a fascinating wrinkle to it, what happens if the EU makes it illegal to share the data, and the US requires it? A company could find themselves in between a rock and a hard place, forced to violate the dictates of at least one powerful governmental force.
    - na85 9y ago
      Not that interesting, really. Nobody forces Microsoft to exist in the EU, or to sell their software to EU citizens. They would simply be forced out of that market.
      - gpm 9y ago
        In theory that's what should happen, but the political realities guarantee it will not. Microsoft, Google, <every other major tech company>, <most other multinational companies>, are too politically powerful. A workaround will be found, or one of the two sets of laws will be changed, or one of the two sets of laws will not be enforced.
      - manfredo 9y ago
        Correct, but at the same time what happens to EU companies selling software services in the US? If the EU companies don't fork over data will they get restricted too? I'm not sure if isolating every jurisdiction into its own tech ecosystem is an achievable (let alone sustainable) direction. To a certain extent, Microsoft (and presumably others) are attempting to do this for their data[1] by hiring data trustees in other countries. Essentially, Microsoft still develops the technical services but hires another company, which does not have US presence, to hold that data and is subject to the (presumably stronger) privacy laws of the country it is located in. I'm not sure how resilient this is to coercion by the US government. Maybe the US government could forbid Microsoft from doing business with the data trustee unless the the trustee gives up user data. 1. https://news.microsoft.com/europe/2015/11/11/45283/ https://news.microsoft.com/europe/2015/11/11/45283/
        9y ago
DomreiRoam 9y ago
It's time to enforce the fact that subsidiaries are independent companies that are only subject to their place of incorporation. Director of local companies have responsibility. A shareholder should only influence a company through the general assembly and is his lasting influence should be exercised by his choice of board member.
newscracker 9y ago
Even if the court decides that companies can be compelled to provide information stored in servers in other countries, I don't see this going anywhere without mutual reciprocative agreements with other countries. Very few countries would want data about/owned by their citizens to be given away directly or indirectly. Even then, it may be a long drawn process, just like with any other cross border criminal investigations.
featherverse 9y ago
This is the second time I've seen this story with a completely misleading headline, it makes a person wonder what the agenda is when creating the headlines.

30 points by runesoerensen 9y ago

Isn't the NSA already doing this the best they can? Kind of an irrelevant thing for the SC to worry about.

More specifically, the Supreme Court is deciding whether the US can compel companies with a US presence to hand over data stored in other countries. "Anyone's data on Earth" is a significant exaggeration. It's not like the US is going to demand Putin's emails (at least not through the courts, who knows what they're trying to do clandestinely).

freedomben 9y ago
I'm not certain it is a significant exaggeration, nor am I certain the US wouldn't demand Putin's email :-) In practice you're probably right, but the idea of leaving things up to the discretion of politicians, particularly the ones we tend to elect, terrifies me.

freedomben 9y ago

This will have immense ramifications on the ability of US companies to do business overseas. Even if there are no legal barriers erected (which I doubt), there will unquestionably be marketing barriers. If there were a company I did business with that had a home-country ruling like this, I would definitely think twice about how much I trust their government.

jorvi 9y ago
There already are legal barriers? Even if the Supreme Court decides this is legal, EU and Irish law make it illegal, and Microsoft will be in extremely deep shit if they actually share the data.
- freedomben 9y ago
  That adds a fascinating wrinkle to it, what happens if the EU makes it illegal to share the data, and the US requires it? A company could find themselves in between a rock and a hard place, forced to violate the dictates of at least one powerful governmental force.
  - na85 9y ago
    Not that interesting, really. Nobody forces Microsoft to exist in the EU, or to sell their software to EU citizens. They would simply be forced out of that market.
    - gpm 9y ago
      In theory that's what should happen, but the political realities guarantee it will not. Microsoft, Google, <every other major tech company>, <most other multinational companies>, are too politically powerful. A workaround will be found, or one of the two sets of laws will be changed, or one of the two sets of laws will not be enforced.
    - manfredo 9y ago
      Correct, but at the same time what happens to EU companies selling software services in the US? If the EU companies don't fork over data will they get restricted too? I'm not sure if isolating every jurisdiction into its own tech ecosystem is an achievable (let alone sustainable) direction. To a certain extent, Microsoft (and presumably others) are attempting to do this for their data[1] by hiring data trustees in other countries. Essentially, Microsoft still develops the technical services but hires another company, which does not have US presence, to hold that data and is subject to the (presumably stronger) privacy laws of the country it is located in. I'm not sure how resilient this is to coercion by the US government. Maybe the US government could forbid Microsoft from doing business with the data trustee unless the the trustee gives up user data. 1. https://news.microsoft.com/europe/2015/11/11/45283/ https://news.microsoft.com/europe/2015/11/11/45283/
      - 9y ago

DomreiRoam 9y ago

It's time to enforce the fact that subsidiaries are independent companies that are only subject to their place of incorporation. Director of local companies have responsibility. A shareholder should only influence a company through the general assembly and is his lasting influence should be exercised by his choice of board member.

newscracker 9y ago

Even if the court decides that companies can be compelled to provide information stored in servers in other countries, I don't see this going anywhere without mutual reciprocative agreements with other countries. Very few countries would want data about/owned by their citizens to be given away directly or indirectly. Even then, it may be a long drawn process, just like with any other cross border criminal investigations.

featherverse 9y ago

This is the second time I've seen this story with a completely misleading headline, it makes a person wonder what the agenda is when creating the headlines.