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That certainly would be news to the IPCC https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm-direct-observations.html https://www.ipcc.ch/publications

That certainly would be news to the IPCC https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm-direct-observations.html https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm... And innumerable scientists who are in the business of documenting the climate change they observe. This sort of inflammatory, unsubstantiated nonsense doesn't belong here.

marcoperaza 9y ago
I'm talking about individuals making observations of weather in terms of "gee, it's sure been warmer around here lately." Notice the average temperature change in those diagrams: we're talking about less than a couple of degrees Celsius over two centuries. Observable globally by carefully taking tons of measurements and averaging, yes. But not observable by noticing that it's been warmer or wetter for a few years during a particular season.
- empath75 9y ago
  Higher average temperature partially manifests as hotter hottest days and those are definitely noticeable.
- abalone 9y ago
  Which has nothing to do with this article about climate scientists.
- skybrian 9y ago
  While you can't directly observe an average temperature difference that small, observing the effects on the local environment is different. Particularly if we're talking "frozen" versus "not frozen". People who grow things outdoors will notice when the last frost is in the spring and when the first frost is in the fall.
  - refurb 9y ago
    I think the point is that if you go back before the industrial revolution, these same big swings were happening back then too. Year after after of mild winters, followed by a few years of severe winters. Same thing with hurricanes. Some seasons have 3x the average and other seasons have none. There is huge variability in climate regardless of global warming.
    - Retra 9y ago
      That variability is still climate change, even if it is not associated with general global warming trends. In either case, the people who don't believe in the actual data will be better-served to at least pay attention to the anecdotes, even if something is missing from them. Because at this point, it's largely a game of political motivation, not confirmation of basic facts.
- trgv 9y ago
  I agree. I think man-made climate change is looking pretty good as a hypothesis, but there is a lot of noise in the media about personally observing climate change that strikes me as phony. One specific example of this is hurricane season in 2017, which many news sources have frequently linked to global warming. I'm not saying it's impossible that there's a connection, but based on my understanding (pretty much just this [0]), this is not something anyone should be speaking confidently about. A lot of people seem to have an "ends justify the means" perspective about this stuff: that being right in general about global warming gives them the right to exaggerate in order to stimulate a public response. I'm not really comfortable with that thinking. [0] https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/ https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/
- AlotOfReading 9y ago
  When academics are looking for human-observable changes in climate, we look at more subtle changes like distributions of indicator species or shifts in economic strategies linked to changes in climate. Just because people might not be accurate at averaging temperature doesn't mean they won't notice that the river levels are rising and their local herb population is changing.
- graeme 9y ago
  I wrote this upthread, but what latitude are you at? The temperature anomalies are quite high at northern latitudes. Closer to the equator and you wouldn’t see much difference. If you’re at a more southern latitude, this may be colouring your view of the anecdotes in this thread. Most of them come from winter territory in north america, where temperature anomalies have been large.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    To give a data point, as someone who observes it, I'm just above the 45th and in the mountains of Maine. I also keep local weather records, as well as have amassed the historical records in a variety of formats.
justicezyx 9y ago
> inflammatory, unsubstantiated nonsense doesn't belong here I have to be direct to say that your post is a perfect example of this statement. The OP certainly points out an issue and is substantiated with a reasoning that long term change cannot be observed by individual in much smaller time scale, which is totally reasonable and a preferred way of thinking. Because insufficient methodology produces inaccurate observation, in turn flawed process to address the issues. Just labeling OP as “inflammatory and unsubstituted nonsense” basically is 1) distorting the fact 2) trying to impose false claim on reasonable ideas, and 3) shuting down non-uniform ideas. This, in reality, does not belong here, or I believe based on my understanding.
- hashmap 9y ago
  Too many words! You can express all that with just three letters: "no u"

marcoperaza 9y ago

I'm talking about individuals making observations of weather in terms of "gee, it's sure been warmer around here lately." Notice the average temperature change in those diagrams: we're talking about less than a couple of degrees Celsius over two centuries. Observable globally by carefully taking tons of measurements and averaging, yes. But not observable by noticing that it's been warmer or wetter for a few years during a particular season.

empath75 9y ago
Higher average temperature partially manifests as hotter hottest days and those are definitely noticeable.
abalone 9y ago
Which has nothing to do with this article about climate scientists.
skybrian 9y ago
While you can't directly observe an average temperature difference that small, observing the effects on the local environment is different. Particularly if we're talking "frozen" versus "not frozen". People who grow things outdoors will notice when the last frost is in the spring and when the first frost is in the fall.
- refurb 9y ago
  I think the point is that if you go back before the industrial revolution, these same big swings were happening back then too. Year after after of mild winters, followed by a few years of severe winters. Same thing with hurricanes. Some seasons have 3x the average and other seasons have none. There is huge variability in climate regardless of global warming.
  - Retra 9y ago
    That variability is still climate change, even if it is not associated with general global warming trends. In either case, the people who don't believe in the actual data will be better-served to at least pay attention to the anecdotes, even if something is missing from them. Because at this point, it's largely a game of political motivation, not confirmation of basic facts.
trgv 9y ago
I agree. I think man-made climate change is looking pretty good as a hypothesis, but there is a lot of noise in the media about personally observing climate change that strikes me as phony. One specific example of this is hurricane season in 2017, which many news sources have frequently linked to global warming. I'm not saying it's impossible that there's a connection, but based on my understanding (pretty much just this [0]), this is not something anyone should be speaking confidently about. A lot of people seem to have an "ends justify the means" perspective about this stuff: that being right in general about global warming gives them the right to exaggerate in order to stimulate a public response. I'm not really comfortable with that thinking. [0] https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/ https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/
AlotOfReading 9y ago
When academics are looking for human-observable changes in climate, we look at more subtle changes like distributions of indicator species or shifts in economic strategies linked to changes in climate. Just because people might not be accurate at averaging temperature doesn't mean they won't notice that the river levels are rising and their local herb population is changing.
graeme 9y ago
I wrote this upthread, but what latitude are you at? The temperature anomalies are quite high at northern latitudes. Closer to the equator and you wouldn’t see much difference. If you’re at a more southern latitude, this may be colouring your view of the anecdotes in this thread. Most of them come from winter territory in north america, where temperature anomalies have been large.
- KGIII 9y ago
  To give a data point, as someone who observes it, I'm just above the 45th and in the mountains of Maine. I also keep local weather records, as well as have amassed the historical records in a variety of formats.

justicezyx 9y ago

> inflammatory, unsubstantiated nonsense doesn't belong here I have to be direct to say that your post is a perfect example of this statement. The OP certainly points out an issue and is substantiated with a reasoning that long term change cannot be observed by individual in much smaller time scale, which is totally reasonable and a preferred way of thinking. Because insufficient methodology produces inaccurate observation, in turn flawed process to address the issues. Just labeling OP as “inflammatory and unsubstituted nonsense” basically is 1) distorting the fact 2) trying to impose false claim on reasonable ideas, and 3) shuting down non-uniform ideas. This, in reality, does not belong here, or I believe based on my understanding.

hashmap 9y ago
Too many words! You can express all that with just three letters: "no u"