4 ms·

Apple must have invested incredible resources on testing that internally, because that was a very risky move, and well outside the norm for filesystem developme

by dmpk2k 9y ago

Apple must have invested incredible resources on testing that internally, because that was a very risky move, and well outside the norm for filesystem development.

saosebastiao 9y ago
Judging by how nightmarishly buggy the upgrade to iOS11 has been, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't test it at all. My phone actually stopped functioning as a phone upon upgrade [0]! [0] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8073670?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8073670?start=0&tstart=...
- chipotle_coyote 9y ago
  While I'm sorry you had bad experiences upgrading to iOS 11, I'm fairly confident it hasn't been "nightmarishly buggy" for everyone. (Neither of my two iOS devices, nor my roommate's two devices, nor my BFF's two devices, had any issues during upgrading, although I'm consistently finding an irritating-but-not-showstopping bug in bluetooth keyboard support on the iPad.) More relevant to the parent, though: the upgrade to APFS happened in iOS 10.3, not iOS 11. So whatever bug you may have had with iOS 11 probably have nothing to do with the file system.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    If the upgrade to iOS 11 was "nightmarishly buggy," we wouldn't only be hearing about it buried in a thread about DragonflyBSD.
    - saosebastiao 9y ago
      Sure, absolutely nobody but a lone disgruntled HN poster has been talking about the epic fail that iOS 11 has been. Must be my vivid imagination. http://www.techradar.com/how-to/ios-11-problems-how-to-fix-them http://www.techradar.com/how-to/ios-11-problems-how-to-fix-t... https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2017/09/24/apple-ios-11-problem-battery-problems-iphone-ipad/#154157d54fdf https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2017/09/24/apple-io... https://www.imobie.com/support/ios-11-problems-and-solutions.htm https://www.imobie.com/support/ios-11-problems-and-solutions... https://www.gottabemobile.com/ios-11-problems-fixes/ https://www.gottabemobile.com/ios-11-problems-fixes/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/25/ios-11-app-slowdowns-performance-issues/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/25/ios-11-app-slowdowns-pe... http://mashable.com/2017/09/21/apple-ios11-glitches/#Q72IbvrDySqX http://mashable.com/2017/09/21/apple-ios11-glitches/#Q72Ibvr... http://www.iphonehacks.com/2017/09/ios-11-bugs.html http://www.iphonehacks.com/2017/09/ios-11-bugs.html https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/some-ios-11-issues-show-early-adoption-pitfalls-others-are-just-growing-pains/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/some-ios-11-issues-s... https://www.tenorshare.com/ios-11/top-15-ios-11-update-problems-and-fixes.html https://www.tenorshare.com/ios-11/top-15-ios-11-update-probl... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/ios-11-problems-features-battery-life-speed-slow-apple-fix-iphone-ipad-8-x-a7961846.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/new... http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/ios-11-problems-3293849 http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/ios-11-problems-3293849 https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2017/09/26/apple-ios-11-battery-and-outlook-problems-how-fix-them/703106001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2017/09/26/app... http://osxdaily.com/2017/09/26/troubleshooting-ios-11-problems/ http://osxdaily.com/2017/09/26/troubleshooting-ios-11-proble... https://www.dailydot.com/debug/ios-11-bugs/ https://www.dailydot.com/debug/ios-11-bugs/ https://appletoolbox.com/2017/09/common-ios-11-problems-how-to-fix/ https://appletoolbox.com/2017/09/common-ios-11-problems-how-... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/21/ios_11_screws_up_outlook/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/21/ios_11_screws_up_ou... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4922738/Apple-forced-issue-update-iOS-11-just-WEEK.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4922738/Apple... http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apple-confirms-ios-bugs-issues-11243872 http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apple-confirms-ios-bugs-issues-... Should I go on?
      - rhizome 9y ago
        I'm not saying it's the be-all end-all of validation, but I don't see HN in there. As an Android user, it was not on my radar at all. This is the first I've heard. Sux2Bme, sure, but I think I'd have seen it somewhere.
markonen 9y ago
APFS landed in iOS 10.3. One cool thing Apple did was a planetwide dry-run of the HFS+ to APFS migration in a previous iOS update. They did the whole convert operation, except the very final bit, and presumably collected metrics about failures.
Tloewald 9y ago
Apple did some pretty brilliant stuff with testing. E.g. they had it silently test install itself on random user devices, verify everything was fine, and revert for several versions prior to release (presumably they picked users with sufficient spare room). The actual rollout was stunningly issue-free. As an aside, this is one of the several unbelievably slick updates Apple has pulled off in its history, including: - the switch to 32-bit clean addresses only (which was probably the most painful switch Apple ever did!) in System 7.6 - the switch to PowerPC (which caused fewer problems than the 32-bit clean switch!) - the switch to Mac OS X - the switch to Intel - the switch to 64-bit on desktop - the switch to 64-bit on iOS Microsoft, (in most cases rightly) vaunted for backwards compatibility has had horrific snafus such as DOS 5 being the first version of DOS whose RESTORE program could read BACKUP files from the previous version of DOS. (It's also worth noting that NeXT itself managed to support four runtime architectures with "quad fat binaries".)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- riffraff 9y ago
  > they had it silently test install itself on random user devices I suppose that meant doing a small install in some virtual disk? I can't think apple put at risk anyone's data. But then, that would not have been the same as actually testing the real hardware interface, would it?

by dmpk2k 9y ago

Apple must have invested incredible resources on testing that internally, because that was a very risky move, and well outside the norm for filesystem development.

saosebastiao 9y ago

Judging by how nightmarishly buggy the upgrade to iOS11 has been, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't test it at all. My phone actually stopped functioning as a phone upon upgrade [0]! [0] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8073670?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8073670?start=0&tstart=...

chipotle_coyote 9y ago
While I'm sorry you had bad experiences upgrading to iOS 11, I'm fairly confident it hasn't been "nightmarishly buggy" for everyone. (Neither of my two iOS devices, nor my roommate's two devices, nor my BFF's two devices, had any issues during upgrading, although I'm consistently finding an irritating-but-not-showstopping bug in bluetooth keyboard support on the iPad.) More relevant to the parent, though: the upgrade to APFS happened in iOS 10.3, not iOS 11. So whatever bug you may have had with iOS 11 probably have nothing to do with the file system.
- rhizome 9y ago
  If the upgrade to iOS 11 was "nightmarishly buggy," we wouldn't only be hearing about it buried in a thread about DragonflyBSD.
  - saosebastiao 9y ago
    Sure, absolutely nobody but a lone disgruntled HN poster has been talking about the epic fail that iOS 11 has been. Must be my vivid imagination. http://www.techradar.com/how-to/ios-11-problems-how-to-fix-them http://www.techradar.com/how-to/ios-11-problems-how-to-fix-t... https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2017/09/24/apple-ios-11-problem-battery-problems-iphone-ipad/#154157d54fdf https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2017/09/24/apple-io... https://www.imobie.com/support/ios-11-problems-and-solutions.htm https://www.imobie.com/support/ios-11-problems-and-solutions... https://www.gottabemobile.com/ios-11-problems-fixes/ https://www.gottabemobile.com/ios-11-problems-fixes/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/25/ios-11-app-slowdowns-performance-issues/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/25/ios-11-app-slowdowns-pe... http://mashable.com/2017/09/21/apple-ios11-glitches/#Q72IbvrDySqX http://mashable.com/2017/09/21/apple-ios11-glitches/#Q72Ibvr... http://www.iphonehacks.com/2017/09/ios-11-bugs.html http://www.iphonehacks.com/2017/09/ios-11-bugs.html https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/some-ios-11-issues-show-early-adoption-pitfalls-others-are-just-growing-pains/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/some-ios-11-issues-s... https://www.tenorshare.com/ios-11/top-15-ios-11-update-problems-and-fixes.html https://www.tenorshare.com/ios-11/top-15-ios-11-update-probl... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/ios-11-problems-features-battery-life-speed-slow-apple-fix-iphone-ipad-8-x-a7961846.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/new... http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/ios-11-problems-3293849 http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/ios-11-problems-3293849 https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2017/09/26/apple-ios-11-battery-and-outlook-problems-how-fix-them/703106001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2017/09/26/app... http://osxdaily.com/2017/09/26/troubleshooting-ios-11-problems/ http://osxdaily.com/2017/09/26/troubleshooting-ios-11-proble... https://www.dailydot.com/debug/ios-11-bugs/ https://www.dailydot.com/debug/ios-11-bugs/ https://appletoolbox.com/2017/09/common-ios-11-problems-how-to-fix/ https://appletoolbox.com/2017/09/common-ios-11-problems-how-... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/21/ios_11_screws_up_outlook/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/21/ios_11_screws_up_ou... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4922738/Apple-forced-issue-update-iOS-11-just-WEEK.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4922738/Apple... http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apple-confirms-ios-bugs-issues-11243872 http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apple-confirms-ios-bugs-issues-... Should I go on?
    - rhizome 9y ago
      I'm not saying it's the be-all end-all of validation, but I don't see HN in there. As an Android user, it was not on my radar at all. This is the first I've heard. Sux2Bme, sure, but I think I'd have seen it somewhere.

markonen 9y ago

APFS landed in iOS 10.3. One cool thing Apple did was a planetwide dry-run of the HFS+ to APFS migration in a previous iOS update. They did the whole convert operation, except the very final bit, and presumably collected metrics about failures.

Tloewald 9y ago

Apple did some pretty brilliant stuff with testing. E.g. they had it silently test install itself on random user devices, verify everything was fine, and revert for several versions prior to release (presumably they picked users with sufficient spare room). The actual rollout was stunningly issue-free. As an aside, this is one of the several unbelievably slick updates Apple has pulled off in its history, including: - the switch to 32-bit clean addresses only (which was probably the most painful switch Apple ever did!) in System 7.6 - the switch to PowerPC (which caused fewer problems than the 32-bit clean switch!) - the switch to Mac OS X - the switch to Intel - the switch to 64-bit on desktop - the switch to 64-bit on iOS Microsoft, (in most cases rightly) vaunted for backwards compatibility has had horrific snafus such as DOS 5 being the first version of DOS whose RESTORE program could read BACKUP files from the previous version of DOS. (It's also worth noting that NeXT itself managed to support four runtime architectures with "quad fat binaries".)

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
riffraff 9y ago
> they had it silently test install itself on random user devices I suppose that meant doing a small install in some virtual disk? I can't think apple put at risk anyone's data. But then, that would not have been the same as actually testing the real hardware interface, would it?