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> Often, the speed limits are too low in the US, and "everybody" goes faster. Excessive speed is the primary cause of a third of all fatal accidents and a cont

by czep 9y ago

> Often, the speed limits are too low in the US, and "everybody" goes faster. Excessive speed is the primary cause of a third of all fatal accidents and a contributing factor in at least half. Instead of training the self-driving cars to be more human, we ought to train humans to act more like the computers! Speeding is one of the stupidest norms that exists in our society. We should definitely not try to encourage it.

0xfeba 9y ago
No, difference in speed causes those accidents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve > Speeding is one of the stupidest norms that exists in our society. Politicians arbitrarily setting the speed limits is the root cause. The EU has many countries which have higher freeway limits, yet lower accidents per mile driven. They also have more stringent licensing.
- ameister14 9y ago
  Yeah, that's not a great study (though it was admittedly pretty groundbreaking,) and it doesn't actually prove that there is no relation between speed and accidents. Multiple studies since the 60's have shown different results. >Politicians arbitrarily setting the speed limits is the root cause. Of speeding, or accidents?
  - 0xfeba 9y ago
    > Yeah, that's not a great study (though it was admittedly pretty groundbreaking,) and it doesn't actually prove that there is no relation between speed and accidents. Multiple studies since the 60's have shown different results. The link sourced multiple studies. The originals were dubious, subsequent ones not so much. But the issue the Solomon curve and other similar studies points out is that humans (and largely Americans) will ignore the rules if they feel they can safely go faster. And sure, you can't ignore overall average speed. Crashes on roads where the average speed is 100 mph are going to be much more prone to fatalities than 55 mph roads. So, there are two rough equations: Lower average speeds mean less severe crashes; speed limits set to the 85th percentile mean fewer crashes. As the speed limit is raised (from 0), there will be at least one solution that satisfies both of those equations and results in the fewest fatal crashes (if that's your goal). In certain situations the lower speed limits can make things less safe. For example, a straight, well maintained toll road with wide lanes, clear vision ahead, and say wildlife barriers that was designed for 75mph max speeds is constructed in a state with statewide 55mph speed limits. Construction uses the latest traffic easing and safety techniques, since you don't want to construct all roads to enforce speed limits that may change in the future. So now most truckers and cautious drivers go 55mph, while people with less inhibitions are weaving in and out of them.
    - ameister14 9y ago
      Are you talking about the wikipedia link? All the subsequent studies save one that it sourced disproved the first's premise or drew attention to serious questions as to its validity. Did you read them?
TheCoelacanth 9y ago
Yes, but the speeding norm is partly caused by speed limits being uniformly too low in some circumstances leading to speeding being tolerated to a point and everyone making their own judgements about how fast is too fast. It would be better to have higher limits that are strictly enforced rather than lower limits that no one follows.
driverdan 9y ago
Did you bother reading what he said? Speed limits are lower than what is safe on many roads. Limits should be increased to the safe maximum and then the maximum should be more strictly enforced. Minimums should be enforced as well, since driving significantly below the maximum is also unsafe. It doesn't mean increasing limits to something that is unsafe.

by czep 9y ago

0xfeba 9y ago

No, difference in speed causes those accidents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve > Speeding is one of the stupidest norms that exists in our society. Politicians arbitrarily setting the speed limits is the root cause. The EU has many countries which have higher freeway limits, yet lower accidents per mile driven. They also have more stringent licensing.

ameister14 9y ago
Yeah, that's not a great study (though it was admittedly pretty groundbreaking,) and it doesn't actually prove that there is no relation between speed and accidents. Multiple studies since the 60's have shown different results. >Politicians arbitrarily setting the speed limits is the root cause. Of speeding, or accidents?
- 0xfeba 9y ago
  > Yeah, that's not a great study (though it was admittedly pretty groundbreaking,) and it doesn't actually prove that there is no relation between speed and accidents. Multiple studies since the 60's have shown different results. The link sourced multiple studies. The originals were dubious, subsequent ones not so much. But the issue the Solomon curve and other similar studies points out is that humans (and largely Americans) will ignore the rules if they feel they can safely go faster. And sure, you can't ignore overall average speed. Crashes on roads where the average speed is 100 mph are going to be much more prone to fatalities than 55 mph roads. So, there are two rough equations: Lower average speeds mean less severe crashes; speed limits set to the 85th percentile mean fewer crashes. As the speed limit is raised (from 0), there will be at least one solution that satisfies both of those equations and results in the fewest fatal crashes (if that's your goal). In certain situations the lower speed limits can make things less safe. For example, a straight, well maintained toll road with wide lanes, clear vision ahead, and say wildlife barriers that was designed for 75mph max speeds is constructed in a state with statewide 55mph speed limits. Construction uses the latest traffic easing and safety techniques, since you don't want to construct all roads to enforce speed limits that may change in the future. So now most truckers and cautious drivers go 55mph, while people with less inhibitions are weaving in and out of them.
  - ameister14 9y ago
    Are you talking about the wikipedia link? All the subsequent studies save one that it sourced disproved the first's premise or drew attention to serious questions as to its validity. Did you read them?

TheCoelacanth 9y ago

Yes, but the speeding norm is partly caused by speed limits being uniformly too low in some circumstances leading to speeding being tolerated to a point and everyone making their own judgements about how fast is too fast. It would be better to have higher limits that are strictly enforced rather than lower limits that no one follows.

driverdan 9y ago

Did you bother reading what he said? Speed limits are lower than what is safe on many roads. Limits should be increased to the safe maximum and then the maximum should be more strictly enforced. Minimums should be enforced as well, since driving significantly below the maximum is also unsafe. It doesn't mean increasing limits to something that is unsafe.