4 ms·

> "Humans violate the rules in a safe and principled way" I don't share this optimism. I've been driven by folks who violate the rules in totally unsafe and sc

> "Humans violate the rules in a safe and principled way" I don't share this optimism. I've been driven by folks who violate the rules in totally unsafe and scary ways (though "principled" in a way, in that they do it consistently -- unless a cop is looking).

grecy 9y ago
Spend some time driving in Latin America or West Africa. The rules mean nothing, everyone drives freestyle. In towns and cities, it works extremely well because everyone is very attentive and ready for anyone else to do anything, at any time. My experience in over 60,000 miles in those parts of the world through more than 30 countries would say they are an order of magnitude less crashes there than in US/Australia/Europe, in the towns and cities. (Note: highway driving is a whole different story)
- saosebastiao 9y ago
  > The rules mean nothing, everyone drives freestyle. In towns and cities, it works extremely well because everyone is very attentive and ready for anyone else to do anything, at any time. There's some truth to that, but there's also the ugly reality: statistically those places tend to have extremely high death rates (which may or may not come with high accident rates). Because while people are definitely more aware and cautious on the road in general, nobody will ever take the extremely dangerous drivers off the road, and they're now emboldened by the lack of consequences (both from the law and from drivers who mostly willingly give up their right of way to whomever is most reckless). I know someone whose entire family was killed by a driver who hit them head on due to blindly passing a truck while going 160kph on a 40kph road in Honduras. I know for a fact that his wife was an extremely cautious driver, but you can't avoid something like that no matter how hard you try to predict the unpredictable.
  - grecy 9y ago
    Absolutely, that's why I gave the caveat. In the cities, freestyle driving works great, and I would bet the accident rate is much lower than "rules based" driving. On the highways is a totally different game. I have seen some horrific accidents, luckily I have avoided them all so far.
- stale2002 9y ago
  > it works extremely well because everyone is very attentive and ready for anyone else to do anything, at any time. Well if that is the case, then hopefully they will be ready for self driving cars to actually follow the law.
  - grecy 9y ago
    They seem to do just fine when I follow the law.. so yes
- marvin 9y ago
  > My experience in over 60,000 miles in those parts of the world through more than 30 countries would say they are an order of magnitude less crashes there than in US/Australia/Europe, in the towns and cities. Do you have any statistics that indicate that there are 90% fewer accidents in Latin American and West African cities than in Western, adjusted for the number of drivers? Seems rather optimistic.
  - grecy 9y ago
    No stats, because they would include highway, which will show Latin America and West Africa having much, much, much worse stats. Certainly not scientific, though other people I know that have driven the world agree, driving "freestlye" is safer than following the rules.

grecy 9y ago

Spend some time driving in Latin America or West Africa. The rules mean nothing, everyone drives freestyle. In towns and cities, it works extremely well because everyone is very attentive and ready for anyone else to do anything, at any time. My experience in over 60,000 miles in those parts of the world through more than 30 countries would say they are an order of magnitude less crashes there than in US/Australia/Europe, in the towns and cities. (Note: highway driving is a whole different story)

saosebastiao 9y ago
> The rules mean nothing, everyone drives freestyle. In towns and cities, it works extremely well because everyone is very attentive and ready for anyone else to do anything, at any time. There's some truth to that, but there's also the ugly reality: statistically those places tend to have extremely high death rates (which may or may not come with high accident rates). Because while people are definitely more aware and cautious on the road in general, nobody will ever take the extremely dangerous drivers off the road, and they're now emboldened by the lack of consequences (both from the law and from drivers who mostly willingly give up their right of way to whomever is most reckless). I know someone whose entire family was killed by a driver who hit them head on due to blindly passing a truck while going 160kph on a 40kph road in Honduras. I know for a fact that his wife was an extremely cautious driver, but you can't avoid something like that no matter how hard you try to predict the unpredictable.
- grecy 9y ago
  Absolutely, that's why I gave the caveat. In the cities, freestyle driving works great, and I would bet the accident rate is much lower than "rules based" driving. On the highways is a totally different game. I have seen some horrific accidents, luckily I have avoided them all so far.
stale2002 9y ago
> it works extremely well because everyone is very attentive and ready for anyone else to do anything, at any time. Well if that is the case, then hopefully they will be ready for self driving cars to actually follow the law.
- grecy 9y ago
  They seem to do just fine when I follow the law.. so yes
marvin 9y ago
> My experience in over 60,000 miles in those parts of the world through more than 30 countries would say they are an order of magnitude less crashes there than in US/Australia/Europe, in the towns and cities. Do you have any statistics that indicate that there are 90% fewer accidents in Latin American and West African cities than in Western, adjusted for the number of drivers? Seems rather optimistic.
- grecy 9y ago
  No stats, because they would include highway, which will show Latin America and West Africa having much, much, much worse stats. Certainly not scientific, though other people I know that have driven the world agree, driving "freestlye" is safer than following the rules.