9 ms·

if your unlucky enough to be fully buried in an avalanche, it's not possible to dig, period. After everything stops moving, the loose snow refreezes almost ins

by cjonas 9y ago

if your unlucky enough to be fully buried in an avalanche, it's not possible to dig, period. After everything stops moving, the loose snow refreezes almost instantly, locking you in place. Still, you're correct... Survivors often state they had no idea which direction was up.

skummetmaelk 9y ago
I thought the common advice was to try to swim upwards while you were moving.
- bitL 9y ago
  That's probably said just to keep you from panicking to give you something to attempt/think about while snow is crushing you. How can a mass of (often wet or frozen in blocks) snow tearing down trees and hurling rocks allow you to swim? Wishful thinking, survival is a question of luck. Maybe in very small avalanches. Many people get their skulls crushed, the forces there are immense... Best way is to avoid avalanche terrain completely. If you walk on a snowfield hearing strange noises a few feet under your legs, run for you life! Abort immediately even if it is your last chance for a climb/ride and would cost you a lot of money.
  - nicpottier 9y ago
    Avalanches act very much like liquids while they are still moving, swimming upstream is indeed the common advice and it has definitely worked. That is why one of the newest devices to survive one (if you are caught) is basically a life preserver: https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/page/avalanche-pack https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/page/avalanche-pack These serve the dual purpose of protecting your head and decreasing your density so you float to the top of the snow pack. Yes, obviously there are big enough avalanches with huge slabs that will kill you in the ride, especially if you end up going through trees, but most skier involved avalanches are on more open terrain (thus why they slide) and are loose snow while moving.
    - bitL 9y ago
      Avalanche bags work nicely in small slab to medium powder avalanches where you might end up upside down a few feet under the surface and suffocate without these bags. It won't help you with most killer avalanches such as large powder ones (220mph and acting as concrete when they stop, filling your cavities), heavy wet ones in spring taking grass, rocks and tree trunks, and most importantly large frozen slab avalanches that just don't care about any equipment you might have or movements you do (and those often give you acoustic signals before they are ready to go). I've read somewhere that without any special equipment, your avalanche survival rate is that of lightning strike. I guess we see videos only of those survivable ones so we often underestimate the danger.
      - mannykannot 9y ago
        There are a great many things which are inevitably fatal in the worst case, but for which there are effective measures that can improve your chances of survival otherwise.
        bitL 9y ago
        There are unsurvivable avalanches (i.e. in the best case you end up dead in one piece): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDEP15NTMgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDEP15NTMgc Some avalanches can destroy bridges or change landscape. It's truly just the survivor bias we see on videos making us think the worst cases aren't very common.
      - nicpottier 9y ago
        > It won't help you with most killer avalanches such as large powder ones This is tautological. Yes, few people survive killer avalanches, because that's what defines a killer avalanche. Many avalanches encountered by backcountry skiers especially are not these giant killer ones, and can be survived either by skiing out of them or having the proper equipment and training. Your odds aren't great, but they aren't nothing either or people wouldn't bother carrying the gear. (beacon / shovel / probe / avy bag) Anyways, this is sufficiently off topic, but your characterization of avalanches is movie-like-stuff. Huge avalanches happen but they aren't the typical case. Most are small / medium slides triggered by humans in the backcountry.
yodsanklai 9y ago
> Survivors often state they had no idea which direction was up They can spit or pee.
- macandcheese 9y ago
  Why is this being downvoted? First thing you should do after an avalanche is dig your face out a foot or two and spit [1]. If it lands back on your face, you're facing up, if not, you're upside down. Taught early in AIARE courses. [1]: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/21/nation/la-na-nn-avalanche-20120220 http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/21/nation/la-na-nn-aval...
Johnny_Brahms 9y ago
This depends on the type of avalanche. I know,because I was caught in one. The one I was in was relatively minor and made up of a large part newly fallen snow. I had stopped for a break and managed to get my skis back on, but the thing overtook me hundred meters later. I had managed to get to higher ground relative to the rest of the slope, which is probably what saved me. I broke one leg and both my arms and got a pretty bad concussion. I managed to walk/ski (one ski was still on me, but badly broken ) to a nearby village and driven on a stretcher to the hospital. I am lucky to be alive. It is amazing though how clear you can think in life threatening situations. the moment I noticed the avalanche I knew exactly what to do and where to go. When I was buried I remember rocking back and forth to get some wiggle/breathing room and when it stopped I waited until my mind cleared up, struggling hard to defeat the panic and pain, until assessing g the situation.
- kamaal 9y ago
  Wow! Firstly I would like to say this was one of those rare HN comments which blows you mind away. Very nice to hear you survived such a bad accident. >>I am lucky to be alive. It is amazing though how clear you can think in life threatening situations. David Allen talks about these situations in this talk. In the moments of crises, the brain brings about all its focus to the highest priority task at focus. Its almost like crises commands the best kind of productivity.
  - monsieurbanana 9y ago
    Students have known that since the dawn of time. It's why they don't work until the night before the deadline, when the urgency is enough to allow them use 200% or their brain's capacities in order to obtain a passing grade. The cherry on top: they can now spend the time until their next deadline thinking about the amazing grades they would get if they worked more than one night per month. Source: me
    - muzani 9y ago
      Cortisol does wonders, but only for the short term. It basically destroys part of your body to supercharge the rest. Later on in life, plenty of companies try to make use of it, pushing people into long hours and short deadlines, and find that it doesn't work as well.

by cjonas 9y ago

skummetmaelk 9y ago

I thought the common advice was to try to swim upwards while you were moving.

bitL 9y ago
That's probably said just to keep you from panicking to give you something to attempt/think about while snow is crushing you. How can a mass of (often wet or frozen in blocks) snow tearing down trees and hurling rocks allow you to swim? Wishful thinking, survival is a question of luck. Maybe in very small avalanches. Many people get their skulls crushed, the forces there are immense... Best way is to avoid avalanche terrain completely. If you walk on a snowfield hearing strange noises a few feet under your legs, run for you life! Abort immediately even if it is your last chance for a climb/ride and would cost you a lot of money.
- nicpottier 9y ago
  Avalanches act very much like liquids while they are still moving, swimming upstream is indeed the common advice and it has definitely worked. That is why one of the newest devices to survive one (if you are caught) is basically a life preserver: https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/page/avalanche-pack https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/page/avalanche-pack These serve the dual purpose of protecting your head and decreasing your density so you float to the top of the snow pack. Yes, obviously there are big enough avalanches with huge slabs that will kill you in the ride, especially if you end up going through trees, but most skier involved avalanches are on more open terrain (thus why they slide) and are loose snow while moving.
  - bitL 9y ago
    Avalanche bags work nicely in small slab to medium powder avalanches where you might end up upside down a few feet under the surface and suffocate without these bags. It won't help you with most killer avalanches such as large powder ones (220mph and acting as concrete when they stop, filling your cavities), heavy wet ones in spring taking grass, rocks and tree trunks, and most importantly large frozen slab avalanches that just don't care about any equipment you might have or movements you do (and those often give you acoustic signals before they are ready to go). I've read somewhere that without any special equipment, your avalanche survival rate is that of lightning strike. I guess we see videos only of those survivable ones so we often underestimate the danger.
    - mannykannot 9y ago
      There are a great many things which are inevitably fatal in the worst case, but for which there are effective measures that can improve your chances of survival otherwise.
      - bitL 9y ago
        There are unsurvivable avalanches (i.e. in the best case you end up dead in one piece): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDEP15NTMgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDEP15NTMgc Some avalanches can destroy bridges or change landscape. It's truly just the survivor bias we see on videos making us think the worst cases aren't very common.
    - nicpottier 9y ago
      > It won't help you with most killer avalanches such as large powder ones This is tautological. Yes, few people survive killer avalanches, because that's what defines a killer avalanche. Many avalanches encountered by backcountry skiers especially are not these giant killer ones, and can be survived either by skiing out of them or having the proper equipment and training. Your odds aren't great, but they aren't nothing either or people wouldn't bother carrying the gear. (beacon / shovel / probe / avy bag) Anyways, this is sufficiently off topic, but your characterization of avalanches is movie-like-stuff. Huge avalanches happen but they aren't the typical case. Most are small / medium slides triggered by humans in the backcountry.

yodsanklai 9y ago

> Survivors often state they had no idea which direction was up They can spit or pee.

macandcheese 9y ago
Why is this being downvoted? First thing you should do after an avalanche is dig your face out a foot or two and spit [1]. If it lands back on your face, you're facing up, if not, you're upside down. Taught early in AIARE courses. [1]: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/21/nation/la-na-nn-avalanche-20120220 http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/21/nation/la-na-nn-aval...

Johnny_Brahms 9y ago

This depends on the type of avalanche. I know,because I was caught in one. The one I was in was relatively minor and made up of a large part newly fallen snow. I had stopped for a break and managed to get my skis back on, but the thing overtook me hundred meters later. I had managed to get to higher ground relative to the rest of the slope, which is probably what saved me. I broke one leg and both my arms and got a pretty bad concussion. I managed to walk/ski (one ski was still on me, but badly broken ) to a nearby village and driven on a stretcher to the hospital. I am lucky to be alive. It is amazing though how clear you can think in life threatening situations. the moment I noticed the avalanche I knew exactly what to do and where to go. When I was buried I remember rocking back and forth to get some wiggle/breathing room and when it stopped I waited until my mind cleared up, struggling hard to defeat the panic and pain, until assessing g the situation.

kamaal 9y ago
Wow! Firstly I would like to say this was one of those rare HN comments which blows you mind away. Very nice to hear you survived such a bad accident. >>I am lucky to be alive. It is amazing though how clear you can think in life threatening situations. David Allen talks about these situations in this talk. In the moments of crises, the brain brings about all its focus to the highest priority task at focus. Its almost like crises commands the best kind of productivity.
- monsieurbanana 9y ago
  Students have known that since the dawn of time. It's why they don't work until the night before the deadline, when the urgency is enough to allow them use 200% or their brain's capacities in order to obtain a passing grade. The cherry on top: they can now spend the time until their next deadline thinking about the amazing grades they would get if they worked more than one night per month. Source: me
  - muzani 9y ago
    Cortisol does wonders, but only for the short term. It basically destroys part of your body to supercharge the rest. Later on in life, plenty of companies try to make use of it, pushing people into long hours and short deadlines, and find that it doesn't work as well.