8 ms·

Earlier this year on a white water rafting expedition I had the misfortune of falling out of the raft and into a series of category 5 rapids. It was absolute ch

by iopuy 9y ago

Earlier this year on a white water rafting expedition I had the misfortune of falling out of the raft and into a series of category 5 rapids. It was absolute chaos. The force of large bodies of moving water is astounding. Any notion of "swimming to safety" is ludicrous. A more accurate description is "being washed to safety" because you have no control over the larger movements of your body. I've heard in avalanches survivors sometimes don't know which end is up and digging themselves deeper. This was me while underwater in the rapids. I couldn't see, didn't know which end was up, and couldn't breath. How he managed to survive is astonishing. Finding his knife, assessing the situation, and acting before being pulled under while injured almost defies my imagination. Riveting read.

mirimir 9y ago
I've also gone swimming in continuous Class V. And yes, there is no control. But hopefully, you're wearing a wetsuit/drysuit, helmet and life preserver. So as long as you can get a breath occasionally, you may well survive. Dead trees jammed among the boulders (sweepers) are probably the major risk.
- mirimir 9y ago
  There's also the fourth drop of Lost Paddle on the Gauley in WV. The whole left side of the river is a labyrinth of strainers. Thereby the name ;)
abritinthebay 9y ago
I got pulled out and through a Cat 3 after heavy rains... and that was enough. Can't even imagine the scariness of a Cat 5 (multiple!!)
cjonas 9y ago
if your unlucky enough to be fully buried in an avalanche, it's not possible to dig, period. After everything stops moving, the loose snow refreezes almost instantly, locking you in place. Still, you're correct... Survivors often state they had no idea which direction was up.
- skummetmaelk 9y ago
  I thought the common advice was to try to swim upwards while you were moving.
  - bitL 9y ago
    That's probably said just to keep you from panicking to give you something to attempt/think about while snow is crushing you. How can a mass of (often wet or frozen in blocks) snow tearing down trees and hurling rocks allow you to swim? Wishful thinking, survival is a question of luck. Maybe in very small avalanches. Many people get their skulls crushed, the forces there are immense... Best way is to avoid avalanche terrain completely. If you walk on a snowfield hearing strange noises a few feet under your legs, run for you life! Abort immediately even if it is your last chance for a climb/ride and would cost you a lot of money.
    - nicpottier 9y ago
      Avalanches act very much like liquids while they are still moving, swimming upstream is indeed the common advice and it has definitely worked. That is why one of the newest devices to survive one (if you are caught) is basically a life preserver: https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/page/avalanche-pack https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/page/avalanche-pack These serve the dual purpose of protecting your head and decreasing your density so you float to the top of the snow pack. Yes, obviously there are big enough avalanches with huge slabs that will kill you in the ride, especially if you end up going through trees, but most skier involved avalanches are on more open terrain (thus why they slide) and are loose snow while moving.
      - bitL 9y ago
        Avalanche bags work nicely in small slab to medium powder avalanches where you might end up upside down a few feet under the surface and suffocate without these bags. It won't help you with most killer avalanches such as large powder ones (220mph and acting as concrete when they stop, filling your cavities), heavy wet ones in spring taking grass, rocks and tree trunks, and most importantly large frozen slab avalanches that just don't care about any equipment you might have or movements you do (and those often give you acoustic signals before they are ready to go). I've read somewhere that without any special equipment, your avalanche survival rate is that of lightning strike. I guess we see videos only of those survivable ones so we often underestimate the danger.
ivanhoe 9y ago
Happened to me a few times, it's a hell of a ride once the water gets you... there's no swimming in rapids, you can maybe just try to position yourself to have legs in front and even that is hard... and pray there's no fallen branches stuck between rocks somewhere in there.
OoooooooO 9y ago
Class 5: Whitewater, large waves, continuous rapids, large rocks and hazards, maybe a large drop, precise maneuvering. Often characterized by "must make" moves, i.e. failure to execute a specific maneuver at a specific point may result in serious injury or death. Class 5 is sometimes expanded to Class 5+ that describes the most extreme, runnable rapids (Skill Level: Expert)
agumonkey 9y ago
Never went into rapids, but I went into a beach between caribean sea and atlantic ocean, known for having a bit more waves (nothing like a class V rapid, maybe 1m waves max.). I failed to catch one at the right time and got swallowed into the crashing tube, it was hard to describe how being embedded in a fluid with enough internal energy feels. Between the chaotic directions and the actual strength I turned into a wooden puppet. I ended up eating the sand face first while my heel knocked my head from behind. Something I cannot do on my own, its just the wave that folded me backward. I'm lucky I didn't breath water I'd have finished that day in a hospital or worse.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  I did something similar in Nice. Standing a little inshore, the top of the water hitting my torso was moving faster than the water around my legs. I ended up being flipped backwards, and dumped on the floor with my back bent right back. I was lucky the tide wasn't stronger, it was hard enough swimming back to shore with my back hurt as it was.
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    Right, it's crazy how water can bend your body that much. I guess every part in the wave carry enough force to keep bending you in every angle. I also had pain in my spine for a while. I'm everything but supple.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      You're right, when something pushes you you can usually swerve or redirect the motion. When the water hits you, even the water moving around you pins you in place, and the water behind sucks you in the same direction - it's impossible to pivot without gravity! I have a healthy fear of standing up in the ocean now...
      - agumonkey 9y ago
        Yep, and it's a very unnatural situation to be in, maybe people used to skyfall have better reflexes to stop spinning and getting a sense of orientation back.
sizzzzlerz 9y ago
The dory I was on flipped going into Crystal rapids on the Colorado. Crystal is one of the most notorious rapids in Grand Canyon due to its huge hole and the rock garden just down stream where you end up if you don't make the rapid. Two people, including the boatman went into the hole, getting Maytagged for a bit before they were spit out. I skirted the edge but got by safely, no thanks to my puny attempts at swimming against that current. Looking down into that hole, though, scared the crap out of me. Fortunately, everybody made it to shore safely, the boat was recovered by an earlier one, and we went on our way with a great story to tell.
muzani 9y ago
Might I ask why you go white water rafting? It baffles me as it seems like a really dangerous hobby. I actually understand skydiving, bungee jumping, or climbing Everest, because they are controlled risks, but white water rafting seems very chaotic.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  Controlled risks, bah humbug! If you think Everest is a controlled risk, do not go there, you are severely underestimating the risks and you would die.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    The crazies up here do it in kayaks, which is pretty amusing. I will/do kayak but I'm not doing that.
    - Piskvorrr 9y ago
      Kayaking up Mt.Everest? Okay, now that is what I call crazy.
      - KGIII 9y ago
        LOL nah, getting their thrill on. They drop in off pretty high cliffs and go through rapids and even over waterfalls. They usually survive.
      - cthalupa 9y ago
        Some crazy people have skiied down from the summits of some of the 8000'ers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ski_descents_of_Eight-Thousanders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ski_descents_of_Eight-...
  - cthalupa 9y ago
    Depends on how much money you spend. It's still not easy, but if you're in decent shape, spend the proper time acclimatizing, go during good weather, and pay for a boatload of sherpas to handle everything and guide you and only you, you'll probably survive. If you're in a group or only have one or two, the resources might not (probably won't) exist for them to do much if it happens where they're going to be severely taxed themselves... But 4 or 5 sherpas spending 100% of their time focused on keeping you (and themselves) alive can probably do it, and I'd call it a fairly controlled risk. Now, whether or not you've really accomplished anything if you've had a team of people babysitting you to the top is another thing altogether.
JadeNB 9y ago
> How he managed to survive is astonishing. Finding his knife, assessing the situation, and acting before being pulled under while injured almost defies my imagination. Riveting read. Did this happen to you or someone else? You switch from first to third person without explanation. "Riveting read" seems like a weird conclusion.
- c22 9y ago
  It happened to Cliff Judkins. GP is comparing an event from their own life with the content of the article.
  - JadeNB 9y ago
    Thank you for correcting my reading-comprehension failure. (That sounds sarcastic, but it isn't.)
munificent 9y ago
> The force of large bodies of moving water is astounding. We underestimate it because we're used to water flowing around us at low speeds. But once you've got enough of it moving quickly, the viscosity and momentum really starts to matter. The thing I think of to try to ground my intuition is to imagine someone throwing a gallon of water at me, still in its jug. Now imagine thousands of those hurtling my way. That's a big crashing wave.
Bluestrike2 9y ago
I can speak more towards avalanches than I can with rapids. It might be tangential to this discussion, but I can't help but chime in on the subject when I get the chance. I've thankfully never been buried in a slide, but it's one of those topics that all non-suicidal backcountry skiers spend a lot of time studying. The community is extremely focused on education and outreach, because those are the only tools that will give people the knowledge and skills needed for informed decision-making when they're in the backcountry. You do everything in your power to avoid being in a position to trigger a slide in the first place. Even if it means foregoing your planned lines for more conservative terrain, going home when you see the terrain and snowpack, or not going out at all if the forecasted danger level is high. Self-rescue is really, really rare unless you've been incredibly lucky enough to float towards the top of a shallow deposition zone in a small slide. Or you've been deposited on top. Even in a relatively shallow burial, 10-12" inches (or even less) means you're entombed in what might as well be concrete. If you're lucky, you'll be able to at least push away a cavity to breathe into while you wait for the rest of your group to dig you out before you asphyxiate. There's equipment that can help you improve your chances (airbag, AvaLung) beyond just the beacon, but they're not guarantees. If it's in your mouth and it isn't knocked out, an AvaLung might help you extend your air supply. An ABS airbag system will hopefully help you float closer to the top during the slide. It won't help you if you slam into a tree or other debris and break your back. Whether it's in the snow, or in the water, mother nature is an uncaring mistress who demands respect. Even when you do everything right, she can still kill you. If there's one good thing about hearing these stories, terrifying and tragic as they often may be, it's that they can drive home that point. The outdoors are, more often than not, a continual exercise in risk management. We put up with it because there's nothing quite as breathtaking as seeing the sun peak over a snow-covered horizon from atop the mountain. Or as exhilarating as the ride down.

by iopuy 9y ago

mirimir 9y ago

I've also gone swimming in continuous Class V. And yes, there is no control. But hopefully, you're wearing a wetsuit/drysuit, helmet and life preserver. So as long as you can get a breath occasionally, you may well survive. Dead trees jammed among the boulders (sweepers) are probably the major risk.

mirimir 9y ago
There's also the fourth drop of Lost Paddle on the Gauley in WV. The whole left side of the river is a labyrinth of strainers. Thereby the name ;)

abritinthebay 9y ago

I got pulled out and through a Cat 3 after heavy rains... and that was enough. Can't even imagine the scariness of a Cat 5 (multiple!!)

cjonas 9y ago

if your unlucky enough to be fully buried in an avalanche, it's not possible to dig, period. After everything stops moving, the loose snow refreezes almost instantly, locking you in place. Still, you're correct... Survivors often state they had no idea which direction was up.

skummetmaelk 9y ago
I thought the common advice was to try to swim upwards while you were moving.
- bitL 9y ago
  That's probably said just to keep you from panicking to give you something to attempt/think about while snow is crushing you. How can a mass of (often wet or frozen in blocks) snow tearing down trees and hurling rocks allow you to swim? Wishful thinking, survival is a question of luck. Maybe in very small avalanches. Many people get their skulls crushed, the forces there are immense... Best way is to avoid avalanche terrain completely. If you walk on a snowfield hearing strange noises a few feet under your legs, run for you life! Abort immediately even if it is your last chance for a climb/ride and would cost you a lot of money.
  - nicpottier 9y ago
    Avalanches act very much like liquids while they are still moving, swimming upstream is indeed the common advice and it has definitely worked. That is why one of the newest devices to survive one (if you are caught) is basically a life preserver: https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/page/avalanche-pack https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/page/avalanche-pack These serve the dual purpose of protecting your head and decreasing your density so you float to the top of the snow pack. Yes, obviously there are big enough avalanches with huge slabs that will kill you in the ride, especially if you end up going through trees, but most skier involved avalanches are on more open terrain (thus why they slide) and are loose snow while moving.
    - bitL 9y ago
      Avalanche bags work nicely in small slab to medium powder avalanches where you might end up upside down a few feet under the surface and suffocate without these bags. It won't help you with most killer avalanches such as large powder ones (220mph and acting as concrete when they stop, filling your cavities), heavy wet ones in spring taking grass, rocks and tree trunks, and most importantly large frozen slab avalanches that just don't care about any equipment you might have or movements you do (and those often give you acoustic signals before they are ready to go). I've read somewhere that without any special equipment, your avalanche survival rate is that of lightning strike. I guess we see videos only of those survivable ones so we often underestimate the danger.

ivanhoe 9y ago

Happened to me a few times, it's a hell of a ride once the water gets you... there's no swimming in rapids, you can maybe just try to position yourself to have legs in front and even that is hard... and pray there's no fallen branches stuck between rocks somewhere in there.

OoooooooO 9y ago

Class 5: Whitewater, large waves, continuous rapids, large rocks and hazards, maybe a large drop, precise maneuvering. Often characterized by "must make" moves, i.e. failure to execute a specific maneuver at a specific point may result in serious injury or death. Class 5 is sometimes expanded to Class 5+ that describes the most extreme, runnable rapids (Skill Level: Expert)

agumonkey 9y ago

Never went into rapids, but I went into a beach between caribean sea and atlantic ocean, known for having a bit more waves (nothing like a class V rapid, maybe 1m waves max.). I failed to catch one at the right time and got swallowed into the crashing tube, it was hard to describe how being embedded in a fluid with enough internal energy feels. Between the chaotic directions and the actual strength I turned into a wooden puppet. I ended up eating the sand face first while my heel knocked my head from behind. Something I cannot do on my own, its just the wave that folded me backward. I'm lucky I didn't breath water I'd have finished that day in a hospital or worse.

Chris2048 9y ago
I did something similar in Nice. Standing a little inshore, the top of the water hitting my torso was moving faster than the water around my legs. I ended up being flipped backwards, and dumped on the floor with my back bent right back. I was lucky the tide wasn't stronger, it was hard enough swimming back to shore with my back hurt as it was.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  Right, it's crazy how water can bend your body that much. I guess every part in the wave carry enough force to keep bending you in every angle. I also had pain in my spine for a while. I'm everything but supple.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    You're right, when something pushes you you can usually swerve or redirect the motion. When the water hits you, even the water moving around you pins you in place, and the water behind sucks you in the same direction - it's impossible to pivot without gravity! I have a healthy fear of standing up in the ocean now...
    - agumonkey 9y ago
      Yep, and it's a very unnatural situation to be in, maybe people used to skyfall have better reflexes to stop spinning and getting a sense of orientation back.

sizzzzlerz 9y ago

The dory I was on flipped going into Crystal rapids on the Colorado. Crystal is one of the most notorious rapids in Grand Canyon due to its huge hole and the rock garden just down stream where you end up if you don't make the rapid. Two people, including the boatman went into the hole, getting Maytagged for a bit before they were spit out. I skirted the edge but got by safely, no thanks to my puny attempts at swimming against that current. Looking down into that hole, though, scared the crap out of me. Fortunately, everybody made it to shore safely, the boat was recovered by an earlier one, and we went on our way with a great story to tell.

muzani 9y ago

Might I ask why you go white water rafting? It baffles me as it seems like a really dangerous hobby. I actually understand skydiving, bungee jumping, or climbing Everest, because they are controlled risks, but white water rafting seems very chaotic.

Piskvorrr 9y ago
Controlled risks, bah humbug! If you think Everest is a controlled risk, do not go there, you are severely underestimating the risks and you would die.
- KGIII 9y ago
  The crazies up here do it in kayaks, which is pretty amusing. I will/do kayak but I'm not doing that.
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    Kayaking up Mt.Everest? Okay, now that is what I call crazy.
    - KGIII 9y ago
      LOL nah, getting their thrill on. They drop in off pretty high cliffs and go through rapids and even over waterfalls. They usually survive.
    - cthalupa 9y ago
      Some crazy people have skiied down from the summits of some of the 8000'ers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ski_descents_of_Eight-Thousanders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ski_descents_of_Eight-...
- cthalupa 9y ago
  Depends on how much money you spend. It's still not easy, but if you're in decent shape, spend the proper time acclimatizing, go during good weather, and pay for a boatload of sherpas to handle everything and guide you and only you, you'll probably survive. If you're in a group or only have one or two, the resources might not (probably won't) exist for them to do much if it happens where they're going to be severely taxed themselves... But 4 or 5 sherpas spending 100% of their time focused on keeping you (and themselves) alive can probably do it, and I'd call it a fairly controlled risk. Now, whether or not you've really accomplished anything if you've had a team of people babysitting you to the top is another thing altogether.

JadeNB 9y ago

> How he managed to survive is astonishing. Finding his knife, assessing the situation, and acting before being pulled under while injured almost defies my imagination. Riveting read. Did this happen to you or someone else? You switch from first to third person without explanation. "Riveting read" seems like a weird conclusion.

c22 9y ago
It happened to Cliff Judkins. GP is comparing an event from their own life with the content of the article.
- JadeNB 9y ago
  Thank you for correcting my reading-comprehension failure. (That sounds sarcastic, but it isn't.)

munificent 9y ago

> The force of large bodies of moving water is astounding. We underestimate it because we're used to water flowing around us at low speeds. But once you've got enough of it moving quickly, the viscosity and momentum really starts to matter. The thing I think of to try to ground my intuition is to imagine someone throwing a gallon of water at me, still in its jug. Now imagine thousands of those hurtling my way. That's a big crashing wave.

Bluestrike2 9y ago

I can speak more towards avalanches than I can with rapids. It might be tangential to this discussion, but I can't help but chime in on the subject when I get the chance. I've thankfully never been buried in a slide, but it's one of those topics that all non-suicidal backcountry skiers spend a lot of time studying. The community is extremely focused on education and outreach, because those are the only tools that will give people the knowledge and skills needed for informed decision-making when they're in the backcountry. You do everything in your power to avoid being in a position to trigger a slide in the first place. Even if it means foregoing your planned lines for more conservative terrain, going home when you see the terrain and snowpack, or not going out at all if the forecasted danger level is high. Self-rescue is really, really rare unless you've been incredibly lucky enough to float towards the top of a shallow deposition zone in a small slide. Or you've been deposited on top. Even in a relatively shallow burial, 10-12" inches (or even less) means you're entombed in what might as well be concrete. If you're lucky, you'll be able to at least push away a cavity to breathe into while you wait for the rest of your group to dig you out before you asphyxiate. There's equipment that can help you improve your chances (airbag, AvaLung) beyond just the beacon, but they're not guarantees. If it's in your mouth and it isn't knocked out, an AvaLung might help you extend your air supply. An ABS airbag system will hopefully help you float closer to the top during the slide. It won't help you if you slam into a tree or other debris and break your back. Whether it's in the snow, or in the water, mother nature is an uncaring mistress who demands respect. Even when you do everything right, she can still kill you. If there's one good thing about hearing these stories, terrifying and tragic as they often may be, it's that they can drive home that point. The outdoors are, more often than not, a continual exercise in risk management. We put up with it because there's nothing quite as breathtaking as seeing the sun peak over a snow-covered horizon from atop the mountain. Or as exhilarating as the ride down.