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I don't see it as needed because I disagree with the premise that there's a problem in general, and in particular with Damore. I see restrictions on journalism

I don't see it as needed because I disagree with the premise that there's a problem in general, and in particular with Damore. I see restrictions on journalism as very dangerous, especially in this particular time when the President of the U.S. is calling for them and many in the GOP support them. Beyond that, this whole discussion plays as part of the white supremacist narrative - do away with democracy and rights, including freedom of the press, because those things cause white supremacists to lose. But find reasonable-sounding arguments so that political oppression sounds like something to discuss. Which is what Damore tried to do with scientific citations and his posture as a victim - a white male with Harvard and Google on his resume.

marcoperaza 9y ago
I thought we could have a reasonable conversation. Unfortunately, I see you just dismiss people you disagree with as supporting white supremacy.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  For someone so concerned with slander, that's a big exaggeration and a personal attack. I didn't say anything about you personally; I hope you will withdraw what you said about me. You asked what I thought and I told you. It's hard to believe you aren't familiar with the white supremacist narrative, including 'reasonably' discussing political oppression, and or that you are unaware that the discussion above fits it well.
  - marcoperaza 9y ago
    You basically said that Damore was pushing a white supremacist narrative, which is ridiculous because he didn't even say anything about race and his views are left of mainstream conservatism if anything. You're not so subtly implying that anyone who agrees with him is also supporting white supremacy. And what does him being white or a Harvard graduate have anything to with it? Do you seriously doubt that the dishonest reporting around what he said has ruined his chance at having a normal career in the tech industry? White Harvard graduates are not immune from the obstacles of life, are not incapable of being victims of wrongdoing. Distrust of the news media and a desire for accountability aren't a "white supremacist" narrative. (And neither is skepticism of third-wave feminism, for that matter). It was only 8 years ago when the Obama administration tried to shut Fox News out from access to the White House and distrust of the media has been a thoughtful leftist talking point forever too (see Noam Chomsky). You're doing what I've noticed a lot of dishonest partisans doing lately: throwing the phrase 'white supremacist' around when talking about your political opponents. It's really no different than what McCarthy did when he attacked anyone with left wing views as a communist, with an eye to getting them shunned from public life.
    - forapurpose 9y ago
      You continue to attack me personally. You've been on HN long enough to know that it's not acceptable here and you'll note that I haven't done the same. I only am discussing the content of this thread. The white male supremacist narrative of their victimization, like the one in the parent, is what I was describing further up the thread.
      - marcoperaza 9y ago
        I don't even know what to say. When you imply that I'm supporting a white supremacist narrative, I'm obviously going to defend myself and call out a fallacious yet unfortunately widespread line of reasoning.
        forapurpose 9y ago
        You can talk about the reasoning without attacking me; it's not hard. I never said anything about you (other than you are attacking me); I have no idea what your intent or thinking is, what kind of person you are or what you support. Maybe you are the grand wizard[0] of the KKK of SV; maybe you are a civil rights organizer but are playing devil's advocate; maybe you are an unwitting 'useful idiot'[1] for the white male supremacists; maybe you are a PhD in philosophy and just like to debate; maybe you are 13 years old and are just trying on some ideas for size; maybe you are a troll; maybe you are in the office down the hall; and probably you are something I haven't thought of and with more complex motivations than these simple characterizations. All I can comment on are the words on the page and that's all anyone should be commenting on. The words fit the narrative I described. [0] Cool title; don't you think? Another attempt to normalize evil: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/james-damore-says-the-quiet-part-loud-what-the-free-speech-activist-movement-is-all-about/ http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/james-damore-says-the-qui... [1] not a pejorative, but a term of art

marcoperaza 9y ago

I thought we could have a reasonable conversation. Unfortunately, I see you just dismiss people you disagree with as supporting white supremacy.

forapurpose 9y ago
For someone so concerned with slander, that's a big exaggeration and a personal attack. I didn't say anything about you personally; I hope you will withdraw what you said about me. You asked what I thought and I told you. It's hard to believe you aren't familiar with the white supremacist narrative, including 'reasonably' discussing political oppression, and or that you are unaware that the discussion above fits it well.
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  You basically said that Damore was pushing a white supremacist narrative, which is ridiculous because he didn't even say anything about race and his views are left of mainstream conservatism if anything. You're not so subtly implying that anyone who agrees with him is also supporting white supremacy. And what does him being white or a Harvard graduate have anything to with it? Do you seriously doubt that the dishonest reporting around what he said has ruined his chance at having a normal career in the tech industry? White Harvard graduates are not immune from the obstacles of life, are not incapable of being victims of wrongdoing. Distrust of the news media and a desire for accountability aren't a "white supremacist" narrative. (And neither is skepticism of third-wave feminism, for that matter). It was only 8 years ago when the Obama administration tried to shut Fox News out from access to the White House and distrust of the media has been a thoughtful leftist talking point forever too (see Noam Chomsky). You're doing what I've noticed a lot of dishonest partisans doing lately: throwing the phrase 'white supremacist' around when talking about your political opponents. It's really no different than what McCarthy did when he attacked anyone with left wing views as a communist, with an eye to getting them shunned from public life.
  - forapurpose 9y ago
    You continue to attack me personally. You've been on HN long enough to know that it's not acceptable here and you'll note that I haven't done the same. I only am discussing the content of this thread. The white male supremacist narrative of their victimization, like the one in the parent, is what I was describing further up the thread.
    - marcoperaza 9y ago
      I don't even know what to say. When you imply that I'm supporting a white supremacist narrative, I'm obviously going to defend myself and call out a fallacious yet unfortunately widespread line of reasoning.
      - forapurpose 9y ago
        You can talk about the reasoning without attacking me; it's not hard. I never said anything about you (other than you are attacking me); I have no idea what your intent or thinking is, what kind of person you are or what you support. Maybe you are the grand wizard[0] of the KKK of SV; maybe you are a civil rights organizer but are playing devil's advocate; maybe you are an unwitting 'useful idiot'[1] for the white male supremacists; maybe you are a PhD in philosophy and just like to debate; maybe you are 13 years old and are just trying on some ideas for size; maybe you are a troll; maybe you are in the office down the hall; and probably you are something I haven't thought of and with more complex motivations than these simple characterizations. All I can comment on are the words on the page and that's all anyone should be commenting on. The words fit the narrative I described. [0] Cool title; don't you think? Another attempt to normalize evil: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/james-damore-says-the-quiet-part-loud-what-the-free-speech-activist-movement-is-all-about/ http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/james-damore-says-the-qui... [1] not a pejorative, but a term of art