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I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I rea

by SMrF 16y ago

I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions. A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this really fed into my desire to prove myself. It's like getting addicted to leveling your character in an RPG, except in real life. Working harder: My only mechanism for coping with stress was to 'work harder', which of course fed right back into this vicious cycle. There was a point when I saw how much work was ahead of me on my project, and it was distressing. I didn't think I could keep up the pace. I spoke to someone close to me and said as much, and they said sometimes this is what is required in a job; just break it up into pieces and bulldoze through it. That's the advice that stuck with me for the next year. That advice fed into all of my personality flaws. Neglecting one's own needs: At one point I told my boss I needed a weekend off. He was a bit shocked since I hadn't had a weekend off in months. I remember still taking calls on my 'weekend off'. I worked from home, but not so that I could take a break, but instead so I could waste less time commuting or dealing with stuff like personal hygiene, (I'm not joking, I actually rationalized this). My schedule was wakeup, grab breakfast and laptop and start working. Work until I was hungry, then stop to make myself a sandwich and have a 'working' lunch. Around dinner time my wife would feed me, and I would usually work straight through dinner, if I didn't I would spend most of dinner talking about work. Then I would typically work until I fell asleep. I did this for months. Displacement of conflicts (the person does not realize the root cause of the distress): Near the end I fabricated paranoid stories about my coworkers and their attempts to make me fail. It took me a year of recovery to finally realize these stories were false and my failure and eventual collapse was almost entirely my own fault. Revision of values (friends or hobbies are completely dismissed): It's hard to have friends when you are working 80 hours a week. I didn't have a social life and I killed all hobbies. Denial of emerging problems (cynicism and aggression become apparent): -- See displacement of conflicts Withdrawal, behavioural changes, substance abuse, depression: I went from occasional smoker to smoking a pack a day. I gained 40 pounds. I became physically ill for weeks at a time, (a simple cough took me a full month to get over). And..(and this is humiliating, but I'm hoping other people will learn from my mistakes), I cried myself to sleep most nights. I don't cry, but during this period of my life, I did. Nothing is this important. It takes years to recover. If you are still convinced that you need to 'optimize your productivity' then know that my output dropped to zero and stayed there for a long time. That is not very productive.

thisduck 16y ago
That's good insight. Still, it's okay to cry.
tomjen3 16y ago
Wow, you have a very patient wife. Guess true love does exist.
- neodude 16y ago
  If SMrF cares to share, I'd be curious to hear how his compulsion affected his relationship with his wife. Did she agree with the crazy hours? What did she do when you were crying yourself to sleep? It sounds like a horrible experience to watch a loved one go through.
  - SMrF 16y ago
    We've known each other for a very long time, (met when we were 10, started dating 10 years ago), so this was just another experience in a very long series of events. Our relationship is stronger now, but it was strong to begin with. Any more than this is too personal to share.
- SMrF 16y ago
  Yes, my wife is amazing. She never believes me when I tell her though. This comment might finally convince her!
justlearning 16y ago
Thank you for sharing your experience. combined with the 'exact' same experience as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774, I have been in this phase for couple of years. I am trying to fight it (have to due to peer pressure to make money). It has come to my losing interest in anything. I used to love programming for the sole reason of enjoyment. I haven't made any changes to my lifestyle (I probably cannot). Last 3 weeks, I have been in the 'isolation phase' My work place, it's a farce of work with people pretending to get work done with unnecessary complex sub systems. My family raised concerns (they understand my phase, my wife often tells me to pursue academics, as I seen not raised for the corporate world). It's only when three members in my family asked the same question, I started to wonder. I have a thousand things in my mind and a struggling pain of not accomplishing anything. I encounter this every single minute of the day. I am so stressed by the whole lagging behind the world that I feel I cannot learn anything new. I have finished the first chapters of how to prove it, foundations of computer science and algorithms book. Although I am interested, I find myself lacking the motivation to continue...And this adds up, days to weeks and then months. Then the cumulative depression rides me to hell. The thought that someone started learning math about 6 years ago when I too picked interest and the comparison istantly drives me for a whole day of depression. During those days, I don't absorb a thing of what I read. I shake my legs when I think and I think all day. I am supposed to working on getting xml schema related work done and I am here shaking my legs and thinking. I have frequented HN enough to know to that I should visit a doctor. But I know that it will not work for me. I don't have the comfort in talking to a 'stranger'.I have heard few here: try a physically involved job. I want to try out (but feel I cannot due to the money factor). I have to earn the bread. I fight with myself saying 'there is do or do not, there is no try', the difference between doing it and thinking about it. I have all the motivation inside, but I just cannot bring myself to do anything. I can never finish any task that I start. This has been going for years. My sanity is still in positive numbers, thanks to my wife. could you share how did you come out of this phase (perhaps there is much more than just moving to a different job). Do you have any personal stories? I ask this because, as I understand this is not the nature of the job but an intrinsic battle that you won.

by SMrF 16y ago

thisduck 16y ago

That's good insight. Still, it's okay to cry.

tomjen3 16y ago

Wow, you have a very patient wife. Guess true love does exist.

neodude 16y ago
If SMrF cares to share, I'd be curious to hear how his compulsion affected his relationship with his wife. Did she agree with the crazy hours? What did she do when you were crying yourself to sleep? It sounds like a horrible experience to watch a loved one go through.
- SMrF 16y ago
  We've known each other for a very long time, (met when we were 10, started dating 10 years ago), so this was just another experience in a very long series of events. Our relationship is stronger now, but it was strong to begin with. Any more than this is too personal to share.
SMrF 16y ago
Yes, my wife is amazing. She never believes me when I tell her though. This comment might finally convince her!

justlearning 16y ago

Thank you for sharing your experience. combined with the 'exact' same experience as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774, I have been in this phase for couple of years. I am trying to fight it (have to due to peer pressure to make money). It has come to my losing interest in anything. I used to love programming for the sole reason of enjoyment. I haven't made any changes to my lifestyle (I probably cannot). Last 3 weeks, I have been in the 'isolation phase' My work place, it's a farce of work with people pretending to get work done with unnecessary complex sub systems. My family raised concerns (they understand my phase, my wife often tells me to pursue academics, as I seen not raised for the corporate world). It's only when three members in my family asked the same question, I started to wonder. I have a thousand things in my mind and a struggling pain of not accomplishing anything. I encounter this every single minute of the day. I am so stressed by the whole lagging behind the world that I feel I cannot learn anything new. I have finished the first chapters of how to prove it, foundations of computer science and algorithms book. Although I am interested, I find myself lacking the motivation to continue...And this adds up, days to weeks and then months. Then the cumulative depression rides me to hell. The thought that someone started learning math about 6 years ago when I too picked interest and the comparison istantly drives me for a whole day of depression. During those days, I don't absorb a thing of what I read. I shake my legs when I think and I think all day. I am supposed to working on getting xml schema related work done and I am here shaking my legs and thinking. I have frequented HN enough to know to that I should visit a doctor. But I know that it will not work for me. I don't have the comfort in talking to a 'stranger'.I have heard few here: try a physically involved job. I want to try out (but feel I cannot due to the money factor). I have to earn the bread. I fight with myself saying 'there is do or do not, there is no try', the difference between doing it and thinking about it. I have all the motivation inside, but I just cannot bring myself to do anything. I can never finish any task that I start. This has been going for years. My sanity is still in positive numbers, thanks to my wife. could you share how did you come out of this phase (perhaps there is much more than just moving to a different job). Do you have any personal stories? I ask this because, as I understand this is not the nature of the job but an intrinsic battle that you won.