7 ms·

That all seems like a net positive to me, especially in major urban areas that a very car dependent like Los Angles, Atlanta, Houston... In LA, driving drunk w

That all seems like a net positive to me, especially in major urban areas that a very car dependent like Los Angles, Atlanta, Houston... In LA, driving drunk was just the way of life, and it was a real problem. Now, I don't know anyone who prefers driving over ridesharing given the option. Uber Pool makes getting from the east side to the west side faster that public transit for about $10-15, which is less than 1 drink and 1000x less than a DUI. It is disingenuous to fault ridesharing for public transit's problems. Of course people are going to opt for the most value. We could raise taxes and invest in improvements that may materialize in 10 years, but that's a hard sell when you have a really good option right now.

abalone 9y ago
I don't think the study is "faulting" anyone. Clearly ridesharing is a very popular and convenient alternative to driving and public transit which are both rife with problems. It is however contributing to traffic and emissions. Those are important facts to establish because previously it was thought that maybe ridesharing is helping with those too, like a dream come true. It concludes, "substantial policy action may be required to ensure that ride-hailing can effectively be woven into the transportation network while reducing congestion and the emissions of transportation services. Absent of these efforts, congestion and emissions appear likely to grow."[1] [1] https://itspubs.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/themes/ucdavis/pubs/download_pdf.php?id=2752 https://itspubs.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/themes/ucdavis/pubs/d...
- TrinaryWorksToo 9y ago
  If we want ridesharing to decrease emissions and traffic, someone should subsidize it as first and last mile transit. That way cars are always at capacity (always picking up or dropping off users) and traffic gets reduced on highways (people will be on transit). In addition public transit will fill to capacity, allowing them to run more often.
  - abalone 9y ago
    At best that would only help with relatively long distance trips, and the study notes it has already led to and increase in commuter rail use. (Which is offset by greater VMT in other cases.) Also it probably still involves deadhead trips within those last miles.
    - TrinaryWorksToo 9y ago
      I'm wondering if there's lots of deadhead trips with existing commuter rail use in existing data. I was guessing that because people typically live close together who go to the same bus stop there would be less deadhead, if people carpooled, as the people who got on the ride would get dropped off at the same time people get picked up.
  - nine_k 9y ago
    This looks sort of backwards. If we want to limit car use, we should increase the price of it. Many city centers do so.
benbristow 9y ago
$10-15 for a drink? Of liquid gold?
- ghaff 9y ago
  Pretty typical price range for a cocktail in a major (or even not so major) city. Even a beer is, outside of happy hour prices, getting near $10 with tip.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    I'm in New Haven which is pretty minor as far as cities go. $10 with tip is par for the course for cocktails here. Beers are a couple bucks cheaper.
  - wolco 9y ago
    For a pitcher?
    - btian 9y ago
      For a bottle. Or in a German restaurant, 500ml. 1 liter of beer goes for $16-18
- wtvanhest 9y ago
  In most 'city' markets, beers tend to be $6, drinks tend to be $10. Add tip and you are at $12. Go to a higher end bar, you are at $15.
- theyregreat 9y ago
  $8 for a beer in a lot of places these days, $15+ for a cocktail. Another reason the bar scene in expensive cities is pointless. In small towns, a beer can be as cheap as $2 or free if the beverage vendor rep is passing out samples (ie whole bottles of beer). Big-box stores for beer by the case and make your own beer.
  - EpicEng 9y ago
HillaryBriss 9y ago
> driving drunk was just the way of life, and it was a real problem. Now, I don't know anyone who prefers driving over ridesharing given the option. drunk driving in LA is still a real problem. law enforcement continues to conduct DUI checkpoints on a regular basis. and they catch drunk drivers. maybe you don't know the people who continue to drink and drive?
- leroy_masochist 9y ago
  This strikes me as a deliberate misunderstanding in service of a snappy counter-comment. Do you honestly believe that the parent meant that nobody drives drunk anymore? In my reading, parent comment is saying that there has been a major shift in default going-out behavior in LA, from driving one's own vehicle home while intoxicated to taking Ubers to/from nightlife locations. Does that sound untrue to you? Sounds true to me.
  - ibejoeb 9y ago
    Thank you. Spot on. To elaborate: even only 5 years ago, I would almost always drive unless I was sure it was going to get aggressive that evening. I bought a personal breathalyzer for $45 at Walgreens, because that's how common a need it was. I'd sit in my car for an hour if I was blowing hot. Don't close your eyes, because that's DUI... The deal with cabs in a town like that is that it is more luxurious than the nightlife itself. $100+ rides from Santa Monica to West Hollywood. $80 from Downtown to Los Feliz. After you track down a local number and call it, if you were lucky, they would even show up sometimes. (But never in under 40 minutes.) "Cash only, no change for a $20." I just had kind of a blowout with Uber, but even as bad as there support is, it's way above "professional" car services there.
  - HillaryBriss 9y ago
    > Do you honestly believe that the parent meant that nobody drives drunk anymore? yep. that was my honest interpretation of the parent comment.
    - leereeves 9y ago
netsharc 9y ago
They should've done this study in a European city with great public transport which also has Uber, like Munich or Berlin.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  "Great public transport" means what exactly? Even in Japan which is widely recognized as one of the countries with excellent public transport, trains and buses stop at night (and not too late either), so if you are going out, and coming back after midnight it's either your car or a very expensive taxi. Is Munich/Berlin any different?
  - zjarek_s 9y ago
    Probably. It is common for european subway to be open on weekends. In my city (Warsaw) subway during fri/sat and sat/sun nights goes every 15 minutes. Night buses start every 30 minutes from central station in every direction, with exception of more remote destinations which have bus every hour. However if you live out of the city and commute by train you are probably out of luck between 1am and 5am.
  - Tehnix 9y ago
    Man I was annoyed with that when I was in Japan. It's horrible, you either stay out until 5 in the morning when they start again or take an insanely expensive taxi. In contrast, in Copenhagen there are always night busses that leave at least once an hour, and the trains also go to fairly late and start early again. There's always some way to get home, which is immensely helpful when you're out drinking. Now that's what I call great public transport.
    - ekianjo 9y ago
      Glad to know it exists somewhere!
  - netsharc 9y ago
    Munich subways run until about 2 or 3 AM on weekends, with the later ones coming with 20 or 30 minute intervals rather than 10 minutes. After that there are night buses and trams going different directions of the city, that come every half hour. To use myself as an example, before Uber I would wait the 20+ minutes until the night tram came along, or a taxi to my place was 20 Euroes. In the early days of Uber, a ride home was 8 Euroes, so that was bearable, later on it was close to as expensive as taxis, so being frugal, I would just wait for the night tram. But if you go to a friend's place for pre-drinks, and then you go to a club around 11 or midnight, public transport would still work superbly.

abalone 9y ago

I don't think the study is "faulting" anyone. Clearly ridesharing is a very popular and convenient alternative to driving and public transit which are both rife with problems. It is however contributing to traffic and emissions. Those are important facts to establish because previously it was thought that maybe ridesharing is helping with those too, like a dream come true. It concludes, "substantial policy action may be required to ensure that ride-hailing can effectively be woven into the transportation network while reducing congestion and the emissions of transportation services. Absent of these efforts, congestion and emissions appear likely to grow."[1] [1] https://itspubs.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/themes/ucdavis/pubs/download_pdf.php?id=2752 https://itspubs.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/themes/ucdavis/pubs/d...

TrinaryWorksToo 9y ago
If we want ridesharing to decrease emissions and traffic, someone should subsidize it as first and last mile transit. That way cars are always at capacity (always picking up or dropping off users) and traffic gets reduced on highways (people will be on transit). In addition public transit will fill to capacity, allowing them to run more often.
- abalone 9y ago
  At best that would only help with relatively long distance trips, and the study notes it has already led to and increase in commuter rail use. (Which is offset by greater VMT in other cases.) Also it probably still involves deadhead trips within those last miles.
  - TrinaryWorksToo 9y ago
    I'm wondering if there's lots of deadhead trips with existing commuter rail use in existing data. I was guessing that because people typically live close together who go to the same bus stop there would be less deadhead, if people carpooled, as the people who got on the ride would get dropped off at the same time people get picked up.
- nine_k 9y ago
  This looks sort of backwards. If we want to limit car use, we should increase the price of it. Many city centers do so.

benbristow 9y ago

$10-15 for a drink? Of liquid gold?

ghaff 9y ago
Pretty typical price range for a cocktail in a major (or even not so major) city. Even a beer is, outside of happy hour prices, getting near $10 with tip.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  I'm in New Haven which is pretty minor as far as cities go. $10 with tip is par for the course for cocktails here. Beers are a couple bucks cheaper.
- wolco 9y ago
  For a pitcher?
  - btian 9y ago
    For a bottle. Or in a German restaurant, 500ml. 1 liter of beer goes for $16-18
wtvanhest 9y ago
In most 'city' markets, beers tend to be $6, drinks tend to be $10. Add tip and you are at $12. Go to a higher end bar, you are at $15.
theyregreat 9y ago
$8 for a beer in a lot of places these days, $15+ for a cocktail. Another reason the bar scene in expensive cities is pointless. In small towns, a beer can be as cheap as $2 or free if the beverage vendor rep is passing out samples (ie whole bottles of beer). Big-box stores for beer by the case and make your own beer.
- EpicEng 9y ago

HillaryBriss 9y ago

> driving drunk was just the way of life, and it was a real problem. Now, I don't know anyone who prefers driving over ridesharing given the option. drunk driving in LA is still a real problem. law enforcement continues to conduct DUI checkpoints on a regular basis. and they catch drunk drivers. maybe you don't know the people who continue to drink and drive?

leroy_masochist 9y ago
This strikes me as a deliberate misunderstanding in service of a snappy counter-comment. Do you honestly believe that the parent meant that nobody drives drunk anymore? In my reading, parent comment is saying that there has been a major shift in default going-out behavior in LA, from driving one's own vehicle home while intoxicated to taking Ubers to/from nightlife locations. Does that sound untrue to you? Sounds true to me.
- ibejoeb 9y ago
  Thank you. Spot on. To elaborate: even only 5 years ago, I would almost always drive unless I was sure it was going to get aggressive that evening. I bought a personal breathalyzer for $45 at Walgreens, because that's how common a need it was. I'd sit in my car for an hour if I was blowing hot. Don't close your eyes, because that's DUI... The deal with cabs in a town like that is that it is more luxurious than the nightlife itself. $100+ rides from Santa Monica to West Hollywood. $80 from Downtown to Los Feliz. After you track down a local number and call it, if you were lucky, they would even show up sometimes. (But never in under 40 minutes.) "Cash only, no change for a $20." I just had kind of a blowout with Uber, but even as bad as there support is, it's way above "professional" car services there.
- HillaryBriss 9y ago
  > Do you honestly believe that the parent meant that nobody drives drunk anymore? yep. that was my honest interpretation of the parent comment.
  - leereeves 9y ago

netsharc 9y ago

They should've done this study in a European city with great public transport which also has Uber, like Munich or Berlin.

ekianjo 9y ago
"Great public transport" means what exactly? Even in Japan which is widely recognized as one of the countries with excellent public transport, trains and buses stop at night (and not too late either), so if you are going out, and coming back after midnight it's either your car or a very expensive taxi. Is Munich/Berlin any different?
- zjarek_s 9y ago
  Probably. It is common for european subway to be open on weekends. In my city (Warsaw) subway during fri/sat and sat/sun nights goes every 15 minutes. Night buses start every 30 minutes from central station in every direction, with exception of more remote destinations which have bus every hour. However if you live out of the city and commute by train you are probably out of luck between 1am and 5am.
- Tehnix 9y ago
  Man I was annoyed with that when I was in Japan. It's horrible, you either stay out until 5 in the morning when they start again or take an insanely expensive taxi. In contrast, in Copenhagen there are always night busses that leave at least once an hour, and the trains also go to fairly late and start early again. There's always some way to get home, which is immensely helpful when you're out drinking. Now that's what I call great public transport.
  - ekianjo 9y ago
    Glad to know it exists somewhere!
- netsharc 9y ago
  Munich subways run until about 2 or 3 AM on weekends, with the later ones coming with 20 or 30 minute intervals rather than 10 minutes. After that there are night buses and trams going different directions of the city, that come every half hour. To use myself as an example, before Uber I would wait the 20+ minutes until the night tram came along, or a taxi to my place was 20 Euroes. In the early days of Uber, a ride home was 8 Euroes, so that was bearable, later on it was close to as expensive as taxis, so being frugal, I would just wait for the night tram. But if you go to a friend's place for pre-drinks, and then you go to a club around 11 or midnight, public transport would still work superbly.