4 ms·

Yes and it says "First-class meal service on a Pan Am 747 in the mid-70s" :)

by 0xFFFE 9y ago

tyingq 9y ago
True, but airlines have absolutely made coach seats smaller and closer together over the years. And we're fatter on average than back then.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Airfare has also dropped by over 90% in the past 50-60 years.
  - froindt 9y ago
    This is a point most people seem to forget about. It's reasonable for a person on an average income to fly. It used to be essentially reserved for the elites and business travelers because of the cost. In some ways we as the customers are making our own problem. People put an unorthodoxly large weighting on paying as little as possible to fly, so airlines have the incentive to cut prices any way possible. People will search 5 different websites for hours just to save $20. Hyvee, a grocery store in the Midwest, partnered up with Casey's (a convenience store chain) to give Fuel Saver credits on gasoline for buying specific products in the store. E.g. Save 1 cent per gallon for buying your canned corn. It's quite popular because people hate paying for gasoline despite the convenience it provides. I simply make my purchases at Aldi and other much cheaper alternatives and come out way ahead.
  - tyingq 9y ago
    A lot of the shrinking occured after airfares were already low. "The average width of airplane seats has declined from 18.5 inches in the early 2000s, to 17 inches by about 2005" http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/29/news/companies/faa-airline-seat-sizes/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/29/news/companies/faa-airline-s...
    - dogma1138 9y ago
      Adjusted for inflation there was also a decrease of nearly 30% between 2000 and 2005. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/273506/ https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/artic... Living in London I’ve paid less for some of my flight tickets to continental Europe on low cost airlines than I paid for an Uber ride within London. So yeah while I dislike traveling in cattle class just as much as the next guy having sub £20 tickets to Spain, Portugal, France and even Greece is pretty darn crazy. Heck right now I can fly to Chaina Crete for £19 with Ryanair..... For reference this is just about if not less than what I spend on lunch and coffee on a working day.
      - tyingq 9y ago
        Yes. It was a reaction to decreased flying after 9/11.
        dogma1138 9y ago
        Some reaction considering I can fly to Crete from the UK right now for £19 each way that’s what $25? A price of a Pizza? If I don’t use the cheapest public transport I will pay more to get to the airport than I will for my flight tickets like 9 out of 10 times while flying from the UK to Europe on the cheapest fare these days.
        tyingq 9y ago
        That's obviously below cost and unsustainable. So, I'm not quite sure what we're supposed to gather from it. It's probably more than £19 per passenger just for the fuel for a trip from the UK to Greece. The average drop off in load factor, and resulting drop in prices after 9/11 is pretty well documented.
        mseebach 9y ago
        £19 is probably pretty close to the marginal cost of carrying an extra passenger, and only available on flights they know won't sell out anyway.
- adrr 9y ago
  You can still get bigger seats in non coach classes. The market wants cheap tickets not comfort which is why the airlines keeps shrinking the seats.
  - inferiorhuman 9y ago
    You could still get the overstuffed seats in economy on United. The interiors were otherwise decrepit but their 747s maintained those comfy seats up until the end.
  - onetokeoverthe 9y ago
    The STOCK market wants a tighter fit in economy. IE; the OWNERS. fixed it 4 u
- cm2187 9y ago
  Fatter and taller
ghaff 9y ago
Although traveling as a whole is more unpleasant in many ways, modern lie flat business class seating is actually quite a bit more comfortable for long haul travel than first class travel in the 747 originally was. (There was a first class lounge on the upper deck to be sure but that didn't last all that long.) Of course, coach is generally both tighter seating and generally has fewer empty seats than it once did.
- saryant 9y ago
  Some airlines still have lounges. Mostly the Gulf carriers and I think Korean.

Yes and it says "First-class meal service on a Pan Am 747 in the mid-70s" :)

by 0xFFFE 9y ago

Yes and it says "First-class meal service on a Pan Am 747 in the mid-70s" :)

True, but airlines have absolutely made coach seats smaller and closer together over the years. And we're fatter on average than back then.

dogma1138 9y ago
Airfare has also dropped by over 90% in the past 50-60 years.
- froindt 9y ago
  This is a point most people seem to forget about. It's reasonable for a person on an average income to fly. It used to be essentially reserved for the elites and business travelers because of the cost. In some ways we as the customers are making our own problem. People put an unorthodoxly large weighting on paying as little as possible to fly, so airlines have the incentive to cut prices any way possible. People will search 5 different websites for hours just to save $20. Hyvee, a grocery store in the Midwest, partnered up with Casey's (a convenience store chain) to give Fuel Saver credits on gasoline for buying specific products in the store. E.g. Save 1 cent per gallon for buying your canned corn. It's quite popular because people hate paying for gasoline despite the convenience it provides. I simply make my purchases at Aldi and other much cheaper alternatives and come out way ahead.
- tyingq 9y ago
  A lot of the shrinking occured after airfares were already low. "The average width of airplane seats has declined from 18.5 inches in the early 2000s, to 17 inches by about 2005" http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/29/news/companies/faa-airline-seat-sizes/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/29/news/companies/faa-airline-s...
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    Adjusted for inflation there was also a decrease of nearly 30% between 2000 and 2005. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/273506/ https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/artic... Living in London I’ve paid less for some of my flight tickets to continental Europe on low cost airlines than I paid for an Uber ride within London. So yeah while I dislike traveling in cattle class just as much as the next guy having sub £20 tickets to Spain, Portugal, France and even Greece is pretty darn crazy. Heck right now I can fly to Chaina Crete for £19 with Ryanair..... For reference this is just about if not less than what I spend on lunch and coffee on a working day.
    - tyingq 9y ago
      Yes. It was a reaction to decreased flying after 9/11.
      - dogma1138 9y ago
        Some reaction considering I can fly to Crete from the UK right now for £19 each way that’s what $25? A price of a Pizza? If I don’t use the cheapest public transport I will pay more to get to the airport than I will for my flight tickets like 9 out of 10 times while flying from the UK to Europe on the cheapest fare these days.
        tyingq 9y ago
        That's obviously below cost and unsustainable. So, I'm not quite sure what we're supposed to gather from it. It's probably more than £19 per passenger just for the fuel for a trip from the UK to Greece. The average drop off in load factor, and resulting drop in prices after 9/11 is pretty well documented.
        mseebach 9y ago
        £19 is probably pretty close to the marginal cost of carrying an extra passenger, and only available on flights they know won't sell out anyway.
adrr 9y ago
You can still get bigger seats in non coach classes. The market wants cheap tickets not comfort which is why the airlines keeps shrinking the seats.
- inferiorhuman 9y ago
  You could still get the overstuffed seats in economy on United. The interiors were otherwise decrepit but their 747s maintained those comfy seats up until the end.
- onetokeoverthe 9y ago
  The STOCK market wants a tighter fit in economy. IE; the OWNERS. fixed it 4 u
cm2187 9y ago
Fatter and taller

ghaff 9y ago

Although traveling as a whole is more unpleasant in many ways, modern lie flat business class seating is actually quite a bit more comfortable for long haul travel than first class travel in the 747 originally was. (There was a first class lounge on the upper deck to be sure but that didn't last all that long.) Of course, coach is generally both tighter seating and generally has fewer empty seats than it once did.

saryant 9y ago
Some airlines still have lounges. Mostly the Gulf carriers and I think Korean.