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Transit systems in the US need some payment technology upgrade. On a couple of occasions, I haven't been able to board a bus due to not having exact change. On

Transit systems in the US need some payment technology upgrade. On a couple of occasions, I haven't been able to board a bus due to not having exact change. Once, I was with kids & family visiting NYC. We were planning to take a public bus from a suburb to the city. The fare turned out to be $16 for all of us, but I had $11 and some $100 bills. Guess what, I couldn't board the bus as they can't return change. The bus driver cannot accept partial fare from me. I couldn't give up 80+ dollars as change. If I had $20, I wouldn't mind not getting back $4. I wondered why they cannot start accepting credit cards, Apple Pay, Android Pay or any reasonable alternative. I then had to find a train station nearby which could accept credit card.

throwawaybbqed 9y ago
I have had the same issue in the past in the Bay area. I finally got a clipper card a few weeks ago (I live in MV typically walk to work). Yesterday, I was in front of a VTA in San Jose trying to get back to MV. The people around were a bit shady, and there was a pretty long wait for the train - of course .. I called an Uber, which cost a few bucks more. Still waiting to use that clipper card.
- mycodebreaks 9y ago
  Yes, clipper card can fix the problem for locals. But, temporary visitors/tourists to the area may not want to get such a card.
  - pdx6 9y ago
    The Oyster card in London is the only way to pay. Pay stations can vend cards, but they need to be distributed more for this to work with Clipper.
    - evadne 9y ago
      This would be incorrect as contactless payment cards (e.g. via Apple Pay) are widely supported in London. [1] [1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/ways-to-pay/whats-the-best-way-for-me-to-pay#on-this-page-0 https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/ways-to-pay/whats-the-...
  - ajdlinux 9y ago
    If you make it easy enough and obvious enough to figure out how to buy a card and don't impose a significant card purchase fee, I think a lot of temporary visitors are willing to do it. The problem is when transit agencies don't make the process of obtaining a card as straightforward as buying a single-trip ticket. Personally, I've got around a dozen transit cards spanning at least six countries...
cozzyd 9y ago
CTA accepts NFC / contactless credit cards as payment for buses
distances 9y ago
Drivers not giving change sounds ridiculous. What's the reasoning behind that? In Europe it doesn't seem to be a problem.
- mycodebreaks 9y ago
  Most public buses have a vending machine type payment system. You can insert bills & coins, but there is no outlet for returning change. So, there is no way drivers can return change.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
    Which is still stupid, because vending machines have had ways to return change for decades. It's just bad design.
    - pdx6 9y ago
      Fare boxes don’t vend change because it is another moving part that can break. Waiting for change creates dwell time multiplied by cash boarding. Agencies can buy fare boxes that give change but this only makes sense on lower ridership systems.
      - distances 9y ago
        All trams in Berlin have ticket vending machines that give change. And Berlin definitely doesn't fit the "lower ridership" category.
- smsm42 9y ago
  Most likely reason is to avoid drivers being robbed - if there's no (easy and accessible for the driver) way to take money out of the thing, local addicts won't get an idea "let's jump on a bus and take money from the driver" because driver can't really give the money. Also a bit of avoiding fraud from driver's side - if the driver is allowed to take money out, it's impossible to control whether all the payments actually got to the end point. That said, I've seen systems where the drivers give change - e.g. in Israel - and that's wasn't a big deal. So I guess it also depends on the locality.
wybiral 9y ago
Here in Austin, Texas Capital Metro does at least have an app that you can pay through. But I do agree that small transactions like that should be easier. Especially when a ride is $1.25. It's plausible that I might have a dollar on hand, but who carries around quarters these days?
- jdavis703 9y ago
  You're probably supposed to use the contactless "smart" card to board. In many systems this card is linked to your bank account and tops you off at a certain amount each time your balance reaches a certain minimum threshold (e.g. once your balance is $10, it takes out $40 from your bank account).
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    Huh, what's wrong with it taking exactly as much off as you're spending? Here contactless cards take it off exactly and immediately.
    - jdavis703 9y ago
      There are at least two problems. The first is that the banks are going to charge the agency a transaction fee. The second is that you start having to put in all kinds of anti-fraud mechanisms (think about someone riding around on buses with a negative account balance that never gets checked because the card scanner is only synced when the bus comes in to the depot). Not saying more user-friendly systems can't be rolled out, but this works good enough for most systems.
      - lucb1e 9y ago
        > think about someone riding around on buses with a negative account balance that never gets checked because the card scanner is only synced when the bus comes in to the depot The system here checks directly. But yeah I guess transaction fees, we typically don't see them but the merchants do. I know of only two places where it's visible: a mobile kebab store charges 10ct and a local ice cream parlor just doesn't have it because of costs. Other than that every place I know offers it without (mention of) fees.
pdx6 9y ago
Clipper has a faster transaction time than a credit card, and the system also needs to support offline transactions. The fee on Clipper is lower too, .03 per tap to Cubic.

throwawaybbqed 9y ago

I have had the same issue in the past in the Bay area. I finally got a clipper card a few weeks ago (I live in MV typically walk to work). Yesterday, I was in front of a VTA in San Jose trying to get back to MV. The people around were a bit shady, and there was a pretty long wait for the train - of course .. I called an Uber, which cost a few bucks more. Still waiting to use that clipper card.

mycodebreaks 9y ago
Yes, clipper card can fix the problem for locals. But, temporary visitors/tourists to the area may not want to get such a card.
- pdx6 9y ago
  The Oyster card in London is the only way to pay. Pay stations can vend cards, but they need to be distributed more for this to work with Clipper.
  - evadne 9y ago
    This would be incorrect as contactless payment cards (e.g. via Apple Pay) are widely supported in London. [1] [1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/ways-to-pay/whats-the-best-way-for-me-to-pay#on-this-page-0 https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/ways-to-pay/whats-the-...
- ajdlinux 9y ago
  If you make it easy enough and obvious enough to figure out how to buy a card and don't impose a significant card purchase fee, I think a lot of temporary visitors are willing to do it. The problem is when transit agencies don't make the process of obtaining a card as straightforward as buying a single-trip ticket. Personally, I've got around a dozen transit cards spanning at least six countries...

cozzyd 9y ago

CTA accepts NFC / contactless credit cards as payment for buses

distances 9y ago

Drivers not giving change sounds ridiculous. What's the reasoning behind that? In Europe it doesn't seem to be a problem.

mycodebreaks 9y ago
Most public buses have a vending machine type payment system. You can insert bills & coins, but there is no outlet for returning change. So, there is no way drivers can return change.
- SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
  Which is still stupid, because vending machines have had ways to return change for decades. It's just bad design.
  - pdx6 9y ago
    Fare boxes don’t vend change because it is another moving part that can break. Waiting for change creates dwell time multiplied by cash boarding. Agencies can buy fare boxes that give change but this only makes sense on lower ridership systems.
    - distances 9y ago
      All trams in Berlin have ticket vending machines that give change. And Berlin definitely doesn't fit the "lower ridership" category.
smsm42 9y ago
Most likely reason is to avoid drivers being robbed - if there's no (easy and accessible for the driver) way to take money out of the thing, local addicts won't get an idea "let's jump on a bus and take money from the driver" because driver can't really give the money. Also a bit of avoiding fraud from driver's side - if the driver is allowed to take money out, it's impossible to control whether all the payments actually got to the end point. That said, I've seen systems where the drivers give change - e.g. in Israel - and that's wasn't a big deal. So I guess it also depends on the locality.

wybiral 9y ago

Here in Austin, Texas Capital Metro does at least have an app that you can pay through. But I do agree that small transactions like that should be easier. Especially when a ride is $1.25. It's plausible that I might have a dollar on hand, but who carries around quarters these days?

jdavis703 9y ago
You're probably supposed to use the contactless "smart" card to board. In many systems this card is linked to your bank account and tops you off at a certain amount each time your balance reaches a certain minimum threshold (e.g. once your balance is $10, it takes out $40 from your bank account).
- lucb1e 9y ago
  Huh, what's wrong with it taking exactly as much off as you're spending? Here contactless cards take it off exactly and immediately.
  - jdavis703 9y ago
    There are at least two problems. The first is that the banks are going to charge the agency a transaction fee. The second is that you start having to put in all kinds of anti-fraud mechanisms (think about someone riding around on buses with a negative account balance that never gets checked because the card scanner is only synced when the bus comes in to the depot). Not saying more user-friendly systems can't be rolled out, but this works good enough for most systems.
    - lucb1e 9y ago
      > think about someone riding around on buses with a negative account balance that never gets checked because the card scanner is only synced when the bus comes in to the depot The system here checks directly. But yeah I guess transaction fees, we typically don't see them but the merchants do. I know of only two places where it's visible: a mobile kebab store charges 10ct and a local ice cream parlor just doesn't have it because of costs. Other than that every place I know offers it without (mention of) fees.

pdx6 9y ago

Clipper has a faster transaction time than a credit card, and the system also needs to support offline transactions. The fee on Clipper is lower too, .03 per tap to Cubic.