4 ms·

> In short, there’s no benefit in using busses anymore. Except these rides are still heavily subsidized and are more expensive than the bus at this subsidized

by ProAm 9y ago

> In short, there’s no benefit in using busses anymore. Except these rides are still heavily subsidized and are more expensive than the bus at this subsidized rate.

cdoxsey 9y ago
Buses are subsidized too.
- so33 9y ago
  Buses are indeed subsidized. But which routes? I bet that the most popular bus routes, the ones that are always packed to the gills, make money. What buses are subsidizing are the unpopular bus routes, the ones whose goal is to increase mobility for those who would otherwise not have it, such as night routes or relatively infrequent peak-hour commuter routes. Those cost a lot to run, and ride-hailing has the luxury of not having to run those routes. I think in the discussion about costs we forget that public transit is, first and foremost, a public service.
  - criddell 9y ago
    > Those cost a lot to run, and ride-hailing has the luxury of not having to run those routes. It might make sense for some cities to stop running buses on those routes and instead pay a private company. Imagine being able to book an Uber or Lyft ride and still only paying the $2.50 fare. Maybe it would be cheaper for the city and more convenient for users?
- Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
  Not everywhere, though. My town (population just 3,000) in the UK has an hourly bus to Oxford and an almost-hourly bus to two medium-sized local towns. (Stagecoach S3 and Pulhams X9, for completeness.) None of these buses are subsidised, and this in an entirely rural area. It's been proved that buses _can_ work without subsidy. It hasn't yet been proved that Uber and Lyft can.
- ProAm 9y ago
  Are they subsidized to 55-60%???
harigov 9y ago
Yeah but they are more convenient and comfortable. Doesn't that say something about current public transit thinking? Some People are willing to pay a little bit more if it is convenient and comfortable.
- ProAm 9y ago
  When the subsidies end, will people be willing to pay $10 +1 for the exact same ride vs public transit?
  - harigov 9y ago
    Subsidies are here to accomplish economies of scale. And when they have that scale, the cost of ride will also decrease dramatically (run buses instead of cars, electric cars/buses?), so my bet is that there will be an increase in price but it won't be order of magnitude more than current price.
    - ProAm 9y ago
      Subsidies here are not for economies of scale, but for market share. Your bet is a risky one vs proven methodology.
      - harigov 9y ago
        It depends on what you consider as market in which Uber/Lyft operate. If it's entire personal transportation market, then one can think of them as in a zero-sum game with other players. I believe that the ride share market (even if you include taxis) is a growing market. Sure, it is very competitive so there is some struggle to gain market share, but there is also incentive to grow so as to get that economies of scale because whoever has that can price extremely competitively and be the winner.
      - jasonbarone 9y ago
        But they are for economies of scale. Product like UberPool, LyftLine, and UberEats were born from it. The business gets more efficient, and as the network keeps evolving it’ll open up new business opportunities that’ll drive prices down.
moduspol 9y ago
People keep saying this, and I'm sure there are ways to estimate, but drivers are typically getting 80% of the cost to the customer [1], with Uber keeping 20%. Suggesting Uber's only able to price this way to due to investors subsidizing the price is to suggest the corporate side of the business can't make a profit from that 20% alone, which seems difficult to believe. If public transit advocates are expecting this is just a speculation-filled bubble, they might want to re-assess. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-cut-does-Uber-take-from-the-total-fare-cost-of-a-ride-Do-they-subtract-a-flat-fee-for-each-dispatch-or-a-percentage-Are-there-initiation-monthly-fees-to-be-a-driver https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-cut-does-Uber-take-fro...

by ProAm 9y ago

> In short, there’s no benefit in using busses anymore. Except these rides are still heavily subsidized and are more expensive than the bus at this subsidized rate.

cdoxsey 9y ago

Buses are subsidized too.

so33 9y ago
Buses are indeed subsidized. But which routes? I bet that the most popular bus routes, the ones that are always packed to the gills, make money. What buses are subsidizing are the unpopular bus routes, the ones whose goal is to increase mobility for those who would otherwise not have it, such as night routes or relatively infrequent peak-hour commuter routes. Those cost a lot to run, and ride-hailing has the luxury of not having to run those routes. I think in the discussion about costs we forget that public transit is, first and foremost, a public service.
- criddell 9y ago
  > Those cost a lot to run, and ride-hailing has the luxury of not having to run those routes. It might make sense for some cities to stop running buses on those routes and instead pay a private company. Imagine being able to book an Uber or Lyft ride and still only paying the $2.50 fare. Maybe it would be cheaper for the city and more convenient for users?
Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
Not everywhere, though. My town (population just 3,000) in the UK has an hourly bus to Oxford and an almost-hourly bus to two medium-sized local towns. (Stagecoach S3 and Pulhams X9, for completeness.) None of these buses are subsidised, and this in an entirely rural area. It's been proved that buses _can_ work without subsidy. It hasn't yet been proved that Uber and Lyft can.
ProAm 9y ago
Are they subsidized to 55-60%???

harigov 9y ago

Yeah but they are more convenient and comfortable. Doesn't that say something about current public transit thinking? Some People are willing to pay a little bit more if it is convenient and comfortable.

ProAm 9y ago
When the subsidies end, will people be willing to pay $10 +1 for the exact same ride vs public transit?
- harigov 9y ago
  Subsidies are here to accomplish economies of scale. And when they have that scale, the cost of ride will also decrease dramatically (run buses instead of cars, electric cars/buses?), so my bet is that there will be an increase in price but it won't be order of magnitude more than current price.
  - ProAm 9y ago
    Subsidies here are not for economies of scale, but for market share. Your bet is a risky one vs proven methodology.
    - harigov 9y ago
      It depends on what you consider as market in which Uber/Lyft operate. If it's entire personal transportation market, then one can think of them as in a zero-sum game with other players. I believe that the ride share market (even if you include taxis) is a growing market. Sure, it is very competitive so there is some struggle to gain market share, but there is also incentive to grow so as to get that economies of scale because whoever has that can price extremely competitively and be the winner.
    - jasonbarone 9y ago
      But they are for economies of scale. Product like UberPool, LyftLine, and UberEats were born from it. The business gets more efficient, and as the network keeps evolving it’ll open up new business opportunities that’ll drive prices down.

moduspol 9y ago

People keep saying this, and I'm sure there are ways to estimate, but drivers are typically getting 80% of the cost to the customer [1], with Uber keeping 20%. Suggesting Uber's only able to price this way to due to investors subsidizing the price is to suggest the corporate side of the business can't make a profit from that 20% alone, which seems difficult to believe. If public transit advocates are expecting this is just a speculation-filled bubble, they might want to re-assess. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-cut-does-Uber-take-from-the-total-fare-cost-of-a-ride-Do-they-subtract-a-flat-fee-for-each-dispatch-or-a-percentage-Are-there-initiation-monthly-fees-to-be-a-driver https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-cut-does-Uber-take-fro...