4 ms·

That's one theory. I find myself wondering what exactly differentiates a "government" from a "family council" or "tribal leadership" or whatever other phrase

by trgv 9y ago

That's one theory. I find myself wondering what exactly differentiates a "government" from a "family council" or "tribal leadership" or whatever other phrase you want to use to describe an "authority-wielding-body with a monopoly on force." I think "governments" are as old as people, and probably older. Many social animals have leaders who dominate the rest of the herd. My feeling is that governments have always been here, they've just gotten bigger and maybe a little more sinister.

chongli 9y ago
As with many things, the line is blurry. I think governments really start to take shape once you get past Dunbar's number [0]. When people no longer know everybody, they need to rely on rules and designated authority figures to settle disputes. I don't know of any way around that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
- icebraining 9y ago
  The seems suspect; after all, the parliaments and other legislative chambers of most countries are larger than Dunbar's number.
  - chongli 9y ago
    Parliaments operate based on rules with a central authority, usually called the speaker, who acts to settle disputes. Parliaments do not operate like an extended family.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      The speaker doesn't really settle disputes, only helps the parties do that between themselves. They're mediators, not arbitrators. And they don't even set the mediation rules. The disputes are settled by vote. As a member of a bellicose family, I can assure you that family members (often older and respected by both sides) acting as mediators are pretty common :)
- trhway 9y ago
  >I think governments really start to take shape once you get past Dunbar's number [0]. and from the wikipedia: "British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who found a correlation between primate brain size and average social group size." that brings us to possible effect of social networks (which either help to overcome brain size limitation of social group size or help that brain function to atrophy - the exact effect on the brain is yet to be determined) on the government.

by trgv 9y ago

chongli 9y ago

As with many things, the line is blurry. I think governments really start to take shape once you get past Dunbar's number [0]. When people no longer know everybody, they need to rely on rules and designated authority figures to settle disputes. I don't know of any way around that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

icebraining 9y ago
The seems suspect; after all, the parliaments and other legislative chambers of most countries are larger than Dunbar's number.
- chongli 9y ago
  Parliaments operate based on rules with a central authority, usually called the speaker, who acts to settle disputes. Parliaments do not operate like an extended family.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    The speaker doesn't really settle disputes, only helps the parties do that between themselves. They're mediators, not arbitrators. And they don't even set the mediation rules. The disputes are settled by vote. As a member of a bellicose family, I can assure you that family members (often older and respected by both sides) acting as mediators are pretty common :)
trhway 9y ago
>I think governments really start to take shape once you get past Dunbar's number [0]. and from the wikipedia: "British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who found a correlation between primate brain size and average social group size." that brings us to possible effect of social networks (which either help to overcome brain size limitation of social group size or help that brain function to atrophy - the exact effect on the brain is yet to be determined) on the government.