3 ms·

How is that USB-C's fault? There are mini-DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 1 ports look the same, and no one complained about it. There are different capabilities on

How is that USB-C's fault? There are mini-DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 1 ports look the same, and no one complained about it. There are different capabilities on USB-A ports, and Apple never marked their USB-A ports blue, and no one complained about it. The alternative is like, what, we settle all the capabilities this port can have, and say that's it, we cannot add new capabilities to this port to confuse consumers, we must use a new port for new capabilities? The 13" MBP have non-equal USB-C ports, if true, is totally Apple's fault. I'm actually surprised at why nobody have sued Apple for misguiding their customers (I don't think Apple disclosed that not all ports on 13" MBP has all the capabilities they bragged about).

bhj 9y ago
> The 13" MBP have non-equal USB-C ports, if true, is totally Apple's fault. Isn't it Intel's fault given the limited number of PCIe lanes on their dual core CPUs? > I don't think Apple disclosed that not all ports on 13" MBP has all the capabilities they bragged about It's noted here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  That's close to "in the basement in the disused lavatory". Search "macbook thunderbolt pci" on Google? It's nowhere in sight by page 3... Search "thunderbolt pci" on support.apple.com? It's result 8, after info about connecting TB displays, network adapters, cables, and so on. Yes it's there, but let's not pretend Apple is going out of their way to note it.
  - bhj 9y ago
    > Search "macbook thunderbolt pci" on Google? It's nowhere in sight by page 3... With "macbook pro 13" thunderbolt speed" it's the very first result (for me at least) In any case, no, they aren't going out of their way, nor should they IMO. I think that would confuse many more people than the amount that are looking specifically to use > 2 full-bandwidth Thunderbolt connections at once on a dual core machine. I'd wager that > 95% are going to be happy they have two extra 10Gbps USB and charge ports.
    - fishywang 9y ago
      Why would any potential buyer search that specified term instead of going to Apple's official tech specs page[1], which said absolutely nothing about the differences between the 4 ports? > 95% of the users won't have the need of more than 2 full bandwidth connection might be true, but a lot of them might have the expectation of using that two ports on either side. Actually on that official tech specs page Apple bluntly claimed that: Four Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports with support for: Charging DisplayPort Thunderbolt (up to 40 Gbps) USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10 Gbps) There's even no footnotes to say that 2 of them actually cannot reach 40Gbps bandwidth. If this is not false advertising I don't know what is. [1] https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
      - bhj 9y ago
        I agree it should be mentioned on that page too ("up to" would probably get them out of any false advertising claims). It's doubly confusing because there are 13" models with only 2 ports vs 4.
        fishywang 9y ago
        I don't know how "up to" works legally (IANAL). Can they claim "up to 80 Gbps" when the maximum they can achieve is 40 Gbps and get away with it?
- bsimpson 9y ago
  It's insane to me that Apple sold a mini-DisplayPort edition of the Cinema Display for years, but doesn't bother explaining how to plug it in to the new Macs.
lmm 9y ago
> There are mini-DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 1 ports look the same, and no one complained about it. There are different capabilities on USB-A ports, and Apple never marked their USB-A ports blue, and no one complained about it. Plenty of us complained about it. Some even saw it as a reason to avoid Apple. > The alternative is like, what, we settle all the capabilities this port can have, and say that's it, we cannot add new capabilities to this port to confuse consumers, we must use a new port for new capabilities? Yes. Different ports should look different.
- fishywang 9y ago
  > Yes. Different ports should look different. Be careful what you wish for. New capabilities are added to ports all the time. If that's the case, we'll have a new port every year.
stordoff 9y ago
I definitely recall seeing complaints about Thunderbolt (and I can't remember if I ever commented publicly, but I definitely thought it was a poor decision). Even so, they were probably less frequent due to the relative uncommonality of mini-DisplayPort, and mitigated by the fact that it was essentially MDP OR MBP+Thunderbolt - relative simple next to the variety of modes/standards USB-C can use.

bhj 9y ago

> The 13" MBP have non-equal USB-C ports, if true, is totally Apple's fault. Isn't it Intel's fault given the limited number of PCIe lanes on their dual core CPUs? > I don't think Apple disclosed that not all ports on 13" MBP has all the capabilities they bragged about It's noted here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256

FireBeyond 9y ago
That's close to "in the basement in the disused lavatory". Search "macbook thunderbolt pci" on Google? It's nowhere in sight by page 3... Search "thunderbolt pci" on support.apple.com? It's result 8, after info about connecting TB displays, network adapters, cables, and so on. Yes it's there, but let's not pretend Apple is going out of their way to note it.
- bhj 9y ago
  > Search "macbook thunderbolt pci" on Google? It's nowhere in sight by page 3... With "macbook pro 13" thunderbolt speed" it's the very first result (for me at least) In any case, no, they aren't going out of their way, nor should they IMO. I think that would confuse many more people than the amount that are looking specifically to use > 2 full-bandwidth Thunderbolt connections at once on a dual core machine. I'd wager that > 95% are going to be happy they have two extra 10Gbps USB and charge ports.
  - fishywang 9y ago
    Why would any potential buyer search that specified term instead of going to Apple's official tech specs page[1], which said absolutely nothing about the differences between the 4 ports? > 95% of the users won't have the need of more than 2 full bandwidth connection might be true, but a lot of them might have the expectation of using that two ports on either side. Actually on that official tech specs page Apple bluntly claimed that: Four Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports with support for: Charging DisplayPort Thunderbolt (up to 40 Gbps) USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10 Gbps) There's even no footnotes to say that 2 of them actually cannot reach 40Gbps bandwidth. If this is not false advertising I don't know what is. [1] https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
    - bhj 9y ago
      I agree it should be mentioned on that page too ("up to" would probably get them out of any false advertising claims). It's doubly confusing because there are 13" models with only 2 ports vs 4.
      - fishywang 9y ago
        I don't know how "up to" works legally (IANAL). Can they claim "up to 80 Gbps" when the maximum they can achieve is 40 Gbps and get away with it?
bsimpson 9y ago
It's insane to me that Apple sold a mini-DisplayPort edition of the Cinema Display for years, but doesn't bother explaining how to plug it in to the new Macs.

lmm 9y ago

> There are mini-DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 1 ports look the same, and no one complained about it. There are different capabilities on USB-A ports, and Apple never marked their USB-A ports blue, and no one complained about it. Plenty of us complained about it. Some even saw it as a reason to avoid Apple. > The alternative is like, what, we settle all the capabilities this port can have, and say that's it, we cannot add new capabilities to this port to confuse consumers, we must use a new port for new capabilities? Yes. Different ports should look different.

fishywang 9y ago
> Yes. Different ports should look different. Be careful what you wish for. New capabilities are added to ports all the time. If that's the case, we'll have a new port every year.

stordoff 9y ago

I definitely recall seeing complaints about Thunderbolt (and I can't remember if I ever commented publicly, but I definitely thought it was a poor decision). Even so, they were probably less frequent due to the relative uncommonality of mini-DisplayPort, and mitigated by the fact that it was essentially MDP OR MBP+Thunderbolt - relative simple next to the variety of modes/standards USB-C can use.