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I was pretty surprised when I moved to Prague to learn that students both Czechs but especially students from the former USSR (the *stans and Russia) expected t

I was pretty surprised when I moved to Prague to learn that students both Czechs but especially students from the former USSR (the *stans and Russia) expected to be able to work together on exams. Having gone to school in the US and been graded on a curve I just couldn't understand these people actively wispering and showing echother answers letting others read over their shoulders. There were groups of people who would have one person study and sit in the row bellow them in the auditorium and then there would be three rows of students above all copying in a game of telephone from one to the other. I remember a very serious incident in college in the US when our history professor found two answers to be similarly worded. The two students were kicked out of the class with a warning that if they were caught copying from eachother again they would be kicked out of school. In Prague, the professors obviously knew about the copying and didn't say a word. Indeed, some of them helped us cheet by showing the answers during the test. They only wanted to be able to document our results to prove to the acreditation comitee that we had studied, and they cared not for our actual qualifications at the end of the degree.

userbinator 9y ago
I wonder if a lot of it has to do with the collectivist nature of the society --- both the former USSR and China are notably communist, and the general expectation is that you help others. I know that in China, there's plenty of "under the table" IP "sharing" happening amongst tech companies too. https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297 https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
- prebrov 9y ago
  I’m Russian living in Asia now and I agree with this hypothesis. Soviet education and propaganda both nurtured collaboration over competition. “Individualsist” was definitely a bad label to have in my Soviet childhood. Egoism was and still is considered one of the worst qualities of all. I feel that pre-Soviet fables and other lore had similar moral message. Togetherness and group benefit are definitely valued higher than individual profit, needs of the many outweigh needs of the few and so on.
  - triplesec 9y ago
    ...which is ironic because the kleptocrats at the top of Russia's economy and politics are all egomanaiacal selfish individualists.
    - seer 9y ago
      Its no coincidence - in a prisoners dilemma when everyboddy cooperates its easy to get to the top by defecting
Radim 9y ago
I can't speak for Russia and "*stans", but this is patently untrue for the Czech Republic (where I come from). Obviously it may depend on the particular institution -- with new, for-profit, private universities (milking rich foreigners who've come to Prague for the beer and fun) having much worse reputation than the public venerable ones like the Charles University (est. 1348). Saying students are "expected" to plagiarise is simply insulting.
- timthelion 9y ago
  I went to Peďak at Charles University. What I wrote was absolutely true of my experience.
seer 9y ago
There is a saying that cheating may teach you more than memorizing everything. Sometimes the tests are given not by the teacher himself but by the state/school or some other third party and the teacher has a feeling of “In it together” with the students by helping them out a bit. They understand that its not the most important subject in the lives of the students and rotte memorization will not help them that much anyway. There’s also a saying that cheating encourages teamwork. I’ve had a biolagy teacher (In a programming-oriented school) actually assign us into teams for the exams where we were encouraged to specialize and devide our learning so we could better “solve” the exam. She knew that people were not there for her subject anyway, and wanted us to learn actual practical skills - and in so doing had made such a strong connection with all of her students that we actually learned much more about biolagy from her than my peers from other schools. And sometimes teachers just dont care - they are graded by their students’ academic sucesses somewhat. They will not be given promotions if students all have top grades, but will be “talked to” if they perform poorly. Such a feedback mechanism practically begs teacher sponsered cheating. But yeah having a degree is way overvalued for historical reasons. Though companies have started to “wisen up” a bit not really accepting college degrees at face value as they previously did.

userbinator 9y ago

I wonder if a lot of it has to do with the collectivist nature of the society --- both the former USSR and China are notably communist, and the general expectation is that you help others. I know that in China, there's plenty of "under the table" IP "sharing" happening amongst tech companies too. https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297 https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297

prebrov 9y ago
I’m Russian living in Asia now and I agree with this hypothesis. Soviet education and propaganda both nurtured collaboration over competition. “Individualsist” was definitely a bad label to have in my Soviet childhood. Egoism was and still is considered one of the worst qualities of all. I feel that pre-Soviet fables and other lore had similar moral message. Togetherness and group benefit are definitely valued higher than individual profit, needs of the many outweigh needs of the few and so on.
- triplesec 9y ago
  ...which is ironic because the kleptocrats at the top of Russia's economy and politics are all egomanaiacal selfish individualists.
  - seer 9y ago
    Its no coincidence - in a prisoners dilemma when everyboddy cooperates its easy to get to the top by defecting

Radim 9y ago

I can't speak for Russia and "*stans", but this is patently untrue for the Czech Republic (where I come from). Obviously it may depend on the particular institution -- with new, for-profit, private universities (milking rich foreigners who've come to Prague for the beer and fun) having much worse reputation than the public venerable ones like the Charles University (est. 1348). Saying students are "expected" to plagiarise is simply insulting.

timthelion 9y ago
I went to Peďak at Charles University. What I wrote was absolutely true of my experience.

seer 9y ago

There is a saying that cheating may teach you more than memorizing everything. Sometimes the tests are given not by the teacher himself but by the state/school or some other third party and the teacher has a feeling of “In it together” with the students by helping them out a bit. They understand that its not the most important subject in the lives of the students and rotte memorization will not help them that much anyway. There’s also a saying that cheating encourages teamwork. I’ve had a biolagy teacher (In a programming-oriented school) actually assign us into teams for the exams where we were encouraged to specialize and devide our learning so we could better “solve” the exam. She knew that people were not there for her subject anyway, and wanted us to learn actual practical skills - and in so doing had made such a strong connection with all of her students that we actually learned much more about biolagy from her than my peers from other schools. And sometimes teachers just dont care - they are graded by their students’ academic sucesses somewhat. They will not be given promotions if students all have top grades, but will be “talked to” if they perform poorly. Such a feedback mechanism practically begs teacher sponsered cheating. But yeah having a degree is way overvalued for historical reasons. Though companies have started to “wisen up” a bit not really accepting college degrees at face value as they previously did.