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Individuals did get bailed out from their mortgages. And the banks paid back the bailout money with interest; the government made a profit. I'm not sure myself

Individuals did get bailed out from their mortgages. And the banks paid back the bailout money with interest; the government made a profit. I'm not sure myself whether the bailouts were the right policy, but they were motivated by genuine policy considerations. People feared that letting the banks fail would lead to catastrophic economic collapse. But even if they were wrong, being wrong doesn't make you corrupt. From your original post: The War on Drugs has created endless misery and violence, while the journalist who accurately exposed CIA drug running somehow suicided by two gunshot wounds to the head. We have endless wars, police murdering people without punishment, unconstitutional three letter agencies, and useless government bureaucracies. All the while growing socieconomic inequality. These aren't claims about corruption, it's a list of things you don't agree with.

wallace_f 9y ago
The Fed and Treasury both contributed to the bail out. The treasury was paid back, the Fed was not. Most of the bail out came from the Fed. The government did not make a profit wholistically. If you don't think police killing people and getting away with it is evidence of corruption, or government lying to go to war for profit, etc, etc... then first I would have to ask what your definition of corruption is? The fact is why most people view these as corruption, so what's wrong with that viewpoint? How about this: what in your mind is an example of corruption?
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"The Fed and Treasury both contributed to the bail out. The treasury was paid back, the Fed was not. Most of the bail out came from the Fed. The government did not make a profit wholistically." There is no reason the Fed would have been paid back. The US Treasury is the agency that bought the toxic assets from the banks. The architect of TARP was Timothy Geitner the then Treasury Secretary. The Fed didn't lend any money. The Fed is essentially a nonprofit, after their expenses any profits are always transferred to the US Treasury. And you are also wrong about the government not making a profit: https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/ https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Come on, if you read my post you would be aware that the TARP program you are referencing was only a small fraction of the bail out. The Fed did lend money. In fact, their primary function is to print and lend money! They do this mainly through the FOMC, where they buy and sell notes to target inflation rates, but they also lend through something called the discount window, and by other means. Where in God's name are you getting so misinformed regarding what the Fed does? >The US Treasury is the agency that bought the toxic assets from the banks You would be further behooved to know that since the financial crisis, the Fed has even bought an enormous share of the MBS market, and even other toxic assets! So no, the Fed actually bought many times more assets from the banks than the TARP program. >The Fed didn't lend any money. Coming back to this ridiculous notion you have: I don't know where you got it from, and why you are so insistent on reiterating that I am wrong, silly, etc. Here is the reality: >"Fed facilitated bailouts to financially troubled institutions by invoking its so-called emergency lending authority. The government even forced some banks to take the money against their objections"(1) So no, no, and no! And the Fed doesn't need to pay anyone back because they simply print their own money and go buy an asset with it. It is really that simple! It doesn't mean you can get something for nothing, they're just dilluting everyone else's wealth. Please do me a favor and Google these things yourself next time so I don't have to refute such misinformation. You've responded aggressively to me like this to me multiple times, and it's coming across as targeted. If you have some personal issue just let me know what your grievance is and we can work towards a solution. 1 - http://dailysignal.com/2009/05/15/paulson-and-the-banks-what-an-offer-you-can%E2%80%99t-refuse-looks-like/ http://dailysignal.com/2009/05/15/paulson-and-the-banks-what... Also see (yes they're biased, but it's a great, thoroughly-sourced article nonetheless) www.heritage.org/monetary-policy/report/quantitative-easing-the-feds-balance-sheet-and-central-bank-insolvency
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      >"The Fed did lend money. In fact, their primary function is to print and lend money!" The primary function of the Fed is NOT to lend money. That statement is so egregious and just plain wrong! And you have the nerve to ask other where they are getting so misnformed? Wow. The primary function of the Fed is the stability of the US economy. Here you can read the statement here on the Fed's website: https://www.federalreserveeducation.org/about-the-fed/structure-and-functions https://www.federalreserveeducation.org/about-the-fed/struct.... And no the Fed also does NOT print money. That statement is also just plain wrong. The US Treasury prints money: http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/082515/who-decides-when-print-money-us.asp http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/082515/who-decides-w... Perhaps you misunderstood quantitative easing when the media was saying the "Fed was printing money"? That wasn't literal you know: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/money_12853.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/money_12853.htm From the above : >"The myth that the Federal Reserve prints money only became prevalent following the Great Recession when many were concerned about the unconventional policies of the central bank, which included intervention in the commercial paper market, mortgages and outright purchases of debt to keep the system from collapsing. By the end, the Federal Reserve expanded its balance sheet by nearly $4 trillion." >"Coming back to this ridiculous notion you have:" The only lending the Fed does is called the "Discount Window" and it's made available to member banks for the sole purpose of meeting reserve requirements and for a very short term. A bank is not allowed to do anything with money that is borrowed via the Fed's Discount Window. It literally just sits in a vault for the sole purpose of meeting the reserve requirements. Making use of the Discount Window traditionally has had a stigma attached as well and so it is not used very often. Also the rate is higher than banks can get from borrowing from each other. So again it is generally not done. >"They do this mainly through the FOMC, where they buy and sell notes to target inflation rates..." And what are they buying in selling through those FOMC operations? US Treasury Notes! So yes their main tool to influence the money supply is an asset that is owned and issued by the US Treasdury. Here from the Fed's own FAQ: "The Federal Reserve purchases Treasury securities held by the public through a competitive bidding process. The Federal Reserve does not purchase new Treasury securities directly from the U.S. Treasury, and Federal Reserve purchases of Treasury securities from the public are not a means of financing the federal deficit."[1] >"Please do me a favor and Google these things yourself next time so I don't have to refute such misinformation." I don't need to Google about how the Central Bank in the US works, I have an education in it. Perhaps your incomplete and incorrect understanding of the US Central Bank and US Treasury is because you have simply chosen to "Google" about it instead of sitting down and reading books or enrolling in a University level course? I'm guessing that's the case. But more egregious than your own incomplete and incorrect understanding of the US financial system is the outsized arrogance you have when displaying your lack of understanding. It's actually anti-social. [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/how-does-the-federal-reserve-buying-and-selling-of-securities-relate-to-the-borrowing-decisions-of-the-federal-government.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/how-does-the-federal-res...

wallace_f 9y ago

The Fed and Treasury both contributed to the bail out. The treasury was paid back, the Fed was not. Most of the bail out came from the Fed. The government did not make a profit wholistically. If you don't think police killing people and getting away with it is evidence of corruption, or government lying to go to war for profit, etc, etc... then first I would have to ask what your definition of corruption is? The fact is why most people view these as corruption, so what's wrong with that viewpoint? How about this: what in your mind is an example of corruption?

bogomipz 9y ago
>"The Fed and Treasury both contributed to the bail out. The treasury was paid back, the Fed was not. Most of the bail out came from the Fed. The government did not make a profit wholistically." There is no reason the Fed would have been paid back. The US Treasury is the agency that bought the toxic assets from the banks. The architect of TARP was Timothy Geitner the then Treasury Secretary. The Fed didn't lend any money. The Fed is essentially a nonprofit, after their expenses any profits are always transferred to the US Treasury. And you are also wrong about the government not making a profit: https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/ https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Come on, if you read my post you would be aware that the TARP program you are referencing was only a small fraction of the bail out. The Fed did lend money. In fact, their primary function is to print and lend money! They do this mainly through the FOMC, where they buy and sell notes to target inflation rates, but they also lend through something called the discount window, and by other means. Where in God's name are you getting so misinformed regarding what the Fed does? >The US Treasury is the agency that bought the toxic assets from the banks You would be further behooved to know that since the financial crisis, the Fed has even bought an enormous share of the MBS market, and even other toxic assets! So no, the Fed actually bought many times more assets from the banks than the TARP program. >The Fed didn't lend any money. Coming back to this ridiculous notion you have: I don't know where you got it from, and why you are so insistent on reiterating that I am wrong, silly, etc. Here is the reality: >"Fed facilitated bailouts to financially troubled institutions by invoking its so-called emergency lending authority. The government even forced some banks to take the money against their objections"(1) So no, no, and no! And the Fed doesn't need to pay anyone back because they simply print their own money and go buy an asset with it. It is really that simple! It doesn't mean you can get something for nothing, they're just dilluting everyone else's wealth. Please do me a favor and Google these things yourself next time so I don't have to refute such misinformation. You've responded aggressively to me like this to me multiple times, and it's coming across as targeted. If you have some personal issue just let me know what your grievance is and we can work towards a solution. 1 - http://dailysignal.com/2009/05/15/paulson-and-the-banks-what-an-offer-you-can%E2%80%99t-refuse-looks-like/ http://dailysignal.com/2009/05/15/paulson-and-the-banks-what... Also see (yes they're biased, but it's a great, thoroughly-sourced article nonetheless) www.heritage.org/monetary-policy/report/quantitative-easing-the-feds-balance-sheet-and-central-bank-insolvency
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    >"The Fed did lend money. In fact, their primary function is to print and lend money!" The primary function of the Fed is NOT to lend money. That statement is so egregious and just plain wrong! And you have the nerve to ask other where they are getting so misnformed? Wow. The primary function of the Fed is the stability of the US economy. Here you can read the statement here on the Fed's website: https://www.federalreserveeducation.org/about-the-fed/structure-and-functions https://www.federalreserveeducation.org/about-the-fed/struct.... And no the Fed also does NOT print money. That statement is also just plain wrong. The US Treasury prints money: http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/082515/who-decides-when-print-money-us.asp http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/082515/who-decides-w... Perhaps you misunderstood quantitative easing when the media was saying the "Fed was printing money"? That wasn't literal you know: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/money_12853.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/money_12853.htm From the above : >"The myth that the Federal Reserve prints money only became prevalent following the Great Recession when many were concerned about the unconventional policies of the central bank, which included intervention in the commercial paper market, mortgages and outright purchases of debt to keep the system from collapsing. By the end, the Federal Reserve expanded its balance sheet by nearly $4 trillion." >"Coming back to this ridiculous notion you have:" The only lending the Fed does is called the "Discount Window" and it's made available to member banks for the sole purpose of meeting reserve requirements and for a very short term. A bank is not allowed to do anything with money that is borrowed via the Fed's Discount Window. It literally just sits in a vault for the sole purpose of meeting the reserve requirements. Making use of the Discount Window traditionally has had a stigma attached as well and so it is not used very often. Also the rate is higher than banks can get from borrowing from each other. So again it is generally not done. >"They do this mainly through the FOMC, where they buy and sell notes to target inflation rates..." And what are they buying in selling through those FOMC operations? US Treasury Notes! So yes their main tool to influence the money supply is an asset that is owned and issued by the US Treasdury. Here from the Fed's own FAQ: "The Federal Reserve purchases Treasury securities held by the public through a competitive bidding process. The Federal Reserve does not purchase new Treasury securities directly from the U.S. Treasury, and Federal Reserve purchases of Treasury securities from the public are not a means of financing the federal deficit."[1] >"Please do me a favor and Google these things yourself next time so I don't have to refute such misinformation." I don't need to Google about how the Central Bank in the US works, I have an education in it. Perhaps your incomplete and incorrect understanding of the US Central Bank and US Treasury is because you have simply chosen to "Google" about it instead of sitting down and reading books or enrolling in a University level course? I'm guessing that's the case. But more egregious than your own incomplete and incorrect understanding of the US financial system is the outsized arrogance you have when displaying your lack of understanding. It's actually anti-social. [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/how-does-the-federal-reserve-buying-and-selling-of-securities-relate-to-the-borrowing-decisions-of-the-federal-government.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/how-does-the-federal-res...