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Is it their job to be fair to the world, or to support the interests of the citizens that they represent? If the government isn't fighting for their interests,

Is it their job to be fair to the world, or to support the interests of the citizens that they represent? If the government isn't fighting for their interests, then what good is it?

orangecat 9y ago
Is it their job to be fair to the world, or to support the interests of the citizens that they represent? The latter, which includes American steel consumers. A few decades ago some people were seriously arguing that open source software was bad for the software industry because it made it harder to have a business selling compilers or web servers.
arjie 9y ago
Well, that's the question, isn't it? If your citizens are paying for expensive locally made steel while the rest of the world can buy cheap steel from Mexico are you supporting your citizens or one tiny section of them? To make it clearer, imagine if an iPhone were built in the US. People have speculated that it would cost over $2000 for the $600 iPhone 5. Now, are Americans better off that 200 million can't buy iPhones but that 60,000 of them have jobs? In fact, _would_ the 200 million buy iPhones to keep the 60,000 employed? Or would they just buy the Samsung that costs $600? Then you'd lose the employment of the 60,000 too. Subsidies aren't free. Tariffs aren't free. They are a tax twice over on every fellow citizen who isn't subsidized or protected by tariff.
- mistermann 9y ago
  Are you a believer that letting jobs freely flow to the cheapest place in the world, and products to flow tariff free across borders, is the optimum approach for all people and across all time frames (short/medium/long)?
  - AdrianB1 9y ago
    Long term, this will happen no matter what. There is no way to have wages in US 5-10 times bigger than in other countries only because politicians can do such a thing (if they would). If John Doe is creating X value in country Y or Z, John's wage should be linked to X and nothing else, especially politicians and location. What makes country Y more special than country Z?
    - eberkund 9y ago
      Exactly this, long term the cost of living and GDP across the world is going to normalize. As it is now, someone living in a western country could take a month's salary and live like a king in many less developed countries, that is rapidly changing.
      - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        Yet the system can be rigged. China's currency is artificially being kept cheap so that manufacturing stays there. Mexico and many Asian countries have terrible labor or environmental protection laws. It seems like maintaining a free market in such a market would lead to a race to the bottom with regards to wages and quality of life. Why should we allow that to happen just to maximize profits?
        AdrianB1 9y ago
        No. Just look inside European Union, where the legislation is about the same and differences in wages are 5x. What can you blame here?
        TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        I don't think trade with advanced countries is the problem. You don't hear many people complain about trade with Canada or the UK because they have good environmental protection and labor laws. Globalization is a net positive for the poor there because it optimizes capital flows without deleveraging the worker too much. The issue really is just with countries that don't provide a quality of life that the US offers, like Mexico.
        AdrianB1 9y ago
        Still jobs from France move to Bulgaria. In the light of the article, that is exactly the same problem.
        mistermann 9y ago
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  >To make it clearer, imagine if an iPhone were built in the US. People have speculated that it would cost over $2000 for the $600 iPhone 5. I'd rather have a job than a cheap iPhone. I also seriously doubt that build costs would rocket from $200 to $2000 simply by moving production to the US.
closeparen 9y ago
Jane Kim is elected to represent SOMA's interests; should she install a border fence to force me to eat at SOMA restaurants instead of going a few blocks to the places I like better in the Financial District?

Is it their job to be fair to the world, or to support the interests of the citizens that they represent? If the government isn't fighting for their interests, then what good is it?

orangecat 9y ago

Is it their job to be fair to the world, or to support the interests of the citizens that they represent? The latter, which includes American steel consumers. A few decades ago some people were seriously arguing that open source software was bad for the software industry because it made it harder to have a business selling compilers or web servers.

arjie 9y ago

Well, that's the question, isn't it? If your citizens are paying for expensive locally made steel while the rest of the world can buy cheap steel from Mexico are you supporting your citizens or one tiny section of them? To make it clearer, imagine if an iPhone were built in the US. People have speculated that it would cost over $2000 for the $600 iPhone 5. Now, are Americans better off that 200 million can't buy iPhones but that 60,000 of them have jobs? In fact, _would_ the 200 million buy iPhones to keep the 60,000 employed? Or would they just buy the Samsung that costs $600? Then you'd lose the employment of the 60,000 too. Subsidies aren't free. Tariffs aren't free. They are a tax twice over on every fellow citizen who isn't subsidized or protected by tariff.

mistermann 9y ago
Are you a believer that letting jobs freely flow to the cheapest place in the world, and products to flow tariff free across borders, is the optimum approach for all people and across all time frames (short/medium/long)?
- AdrianB1 9y ago
  Long term, this will happen no matter what. There is no way to have wages in US 5-10 times bigger than in other countries only because politicians can do such a thing (if they would). If John Doe is creating X value in country Y or Z, John's wage should be linked to X and nothing else, especially politicians and location. What makes country Y more special than country Z?
  - eberkund 9y ago
    Exactly this, long term the cost of living and GDP across the world is going to normalize. As it is now, someone living in a western country could take a month's salary and live like a king in many less developed countries, that is rapidly changing.
    - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
      Yet the system can be rigged. China's currency is artificially being kept cheap so that manufacturing stays there. Mexico and many Asian countries have terrible labor or environmental protection laws. It seems like maintaining a free market in such a market would lead to a race to the bottom with regards to wages and quality of life. Why should we allow that to happen just to maximize profits?
      - AdrianB1 9y ago
        No. Just look inside European Union, where the legislation is about the same and differences in wages are 5x. What can you blame here?
        TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        I don't think trade with advanced countries is the problem. You don't hear many people complain about trade with Canada or the UK because they have good environmental protection and labor laws. Globalization is a net positive for the poor there because it optimizes capital flows without deleveraging the worker too much. The issue really is just with countries that don't provide a quality of life that the US offers, like Mexico.
        AdrianB1 9y ago
        Still jobs from France move to Bulgaria. In the light of the article, that is exactly the same problem.
        mistermann 9y ago
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
crdoconnor 9y ago
>To make it clearer, imagine if an iPhone were built in the US. People have speculated that it would cost over $2000 for the $600 iPhone 5. I'd rather have a job than a cheap iPhone. I also seriously doubt that build costs would rocket from $200 to $2000 simply by moving production to the US.

closeparen 9y ago

Jane Kim is elected to represent SOMA's interests; should she install a border fence to force me to eat at SOMA restaurants instead of going a few blocks to the places I like better in the Financial District?