4 ms·

Wouldn't surprise me at all if government was born from coercion of the individual to the needs of the state.. it is after all the definition of government.

• drharby 9y ago
  A government by the people, for the people? Ring any bells? Something something consent of the governed?
  • labster 9y ago
    When in the course of human events, something something, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.
• coldtea 9y ago
  The basic idea is that it would be better to coerce to the rules/needs of a state, than to the arbitrary needs and whims of random powerful persons, teams of thugs, enemy tribes, etc. And it got even better when people could elect and somewhat control the state.
• pjc50 9y ago
  Before the state, the coercion of the family.
• forapurpose 9y ago
  > it is after all the definition of government It's necessary for government (more specifically, at least for one context, a definition of sovereignty is a monopoly on violence and justice). But the definition is much more than that. It's also collective decision-making. I don't follow the law - even ones I disagree with - and pay my taxes because I'm coerced, but because I believe very strongly in the rule of law, I respect the decisions of my fellow citizens - even ones I disagree with, and I'm proud to participate.
  • JoBrad 9y ago
    But if you don’t believe in it, you are coerced, either by being evicted or forced to comply.
  • xj9 9y ago
    it is still coercive because you don't have the option to opt-out and you were never asked to opt-in. you may not comply because of coercion, but if you decide you disagree a do not comply there are plenty of guns waiting to make sure you change your mind.
    • forapurpose 9y ago
      > you were never asked to opt-in I certainly was. My neighbors and I elected someone to represent us on the matter, there was a public debate about the law before it was passed and I told my representative how I wanted them to vote, and our representative's job is up for review in a year.
• chongli 9y ago
  Government was born from the necessity to manage and defend grain stockpiles. Compared to hunted/foraged food, grain could be stored for long periods of time and its high energy density made it a prime target for thieves/marauders.
  • trgv 9y ago
    That's one theory. I find myself wondering what exactly differentiates a "government" from a "family council" or "tribal leadership" or whatever other phrase you want to use to describe an "authority-wielding-body with a monopoly on force." I think "governments" are as old as people, and probably older. Many social animals have leaders who dominate the rest of the herd. My feeling is that governments have always been here, they've just gotten bigger and maybe a little more sinister.
    • chongli 9y ago
      As with many things, the line is blurry. I think governments really start to take shape once you get past Dunbar's number [0]. When people no longer know everybody, they need to rely on rules and designated authority figures to settle disputes. I don't know of any way around that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
      • icebraining 9y ago
        The seems suspect; after all, the parliaments and other legislative chambers of most countries are larger than Dunbar's number.
        • chongli 9y ago
          Parliaments operate based on rules with a central authority, usually called the speaker, who acts to settle disputes. Parliaments do not operate like an extended family.
          • 9y ago