6 ms·

Greasing of wheels is actually permitted for ordinary affairs

charlesdm 9y ago
Under US law? So you can bribe someone to get a construction or operating permit, but not to acquire a $100m property development project? That's a bit hypocritical no?
- shub 9y ago
  Iit's specifically minor bribes required to get anything done even if you comply with the law. Bribing a building inspector to overlook safety problems, that's an FCPA violation. Tipping him $20 to thank him for his hard work on verifying your construction's code compliance, not a problem. The text is so: > Subsections (a) and (g) of this section shall not apply to any facilitating or expediting payment to a foreign official, political party, or party official the purpose of which is to expedite or to secure the performance of a routine governmental action by a foreign official, political party, or party official.
KGIII 9y ago
On my own continent, North America, showing 'documentaçion' (paying a small bribe) is customary and not considered abnormal. I enjoy spending time in Latin America and, truth be told, the system works. As a foreigner, I'm expected to pay more but the price isn't that much. If I were doing something illegal, I'd pay even more. It doesn't even always have to be currency. Outside of the tourist areas, the policia may very well have a checkpoint before you enter a region. Cold beer is always welcome, as is soda. Etc... That's right here on my continent. You can find that just driving outside the tourist areas of Mexico. There's some effort to make it look official, but you can hand them a magazine with $5 - $20 in it, and they will slip it into their pocket, flip through the magazine, and wave you through. If you use a porno magazine, they may just keep it.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  What exactly about this works for you?
  - KGIII 9y ago
    It gets things done quickly and easily. They don't make much money so it provides them with additional income. You can pay more for various services or head turning. It's pretty effective and pragmatic.
    - Nomentatus 9y ago
      An effective way of privileging wealthier foreigners, yup - not as effective in promoting domestic economic growth or serving poorer citizens I'm guessing.
      - KGIII 9y ago
        The police are pretty poor, you know. One act doesn't have to help everyone. Is it right? No. It is effective and pragmatic.
        wallace_f 9y ago
        I once met someone who claimed that while they were in Vietnam they had been accused of having hard drugs. Despite the person's apparent innocence, they claimed to have paid over 500 euro to be let go. I also met someone who claimed in Malaysia their rental had the windows smashed out. They went to the police and the police didn't care to investigate, look at cctv, or help in any way. So I just don't see how this is pragmatic in any way for the average person for police to be more interested in road stoppages in these countries to collect $10 from every car than to actually solve crime. Why employ them at all?
        KGIII 9y ago
        They do actually do some police work. They don't just hang out and collect a toll. Locals may not even pay the toll. It is what it is and you're going to pay it if you want t travel there. If not, they'll find a way to dress it up legally and you'll pay it as a fine. You might just as well pay the smaller amount, then they won't beat you on your way to the local jail. Not every country is what people seem to be expecting, and less so when you get away from tourist areas. I do not condone it, but I understand. Also, I don't mind the downvoats, I have karma to spare. If this makes people uncomfortable, perhaps it's good that they know about it. It's pretty blatant, once you're out of the tourist areas - and happens all across the globe, not just there.

Under US law? So you can bribe someone to get a construction or operating permit, but not to acquire a $100m property development project? That's a bit hypocritical no?

shub 9y ago
Iit's specifically minor bribes required to get anything done even if you comply with the law. Bribing a building inspector to overlook safety problems, that's an FCPA violation. Tipping him $20 to thank him for his hard work on verifying your construction's code compliance, not a problem. The text is so: > Subsections (a) and (g) of this section shall not apply to any facilitating or expediting payment to a foreign official, political party, or party official the purpose of which is to expedite or to secure the performance of a routine governmental action by a foreign official, political party, or party official.

KGIII 9y ago

On my own continent, North America, showing 'documentaçion' (paying a small bribe) is customary and not considered abnormal. I enjoy spending time in Latin America and, truth be told, the system works. As a foreigner, I'm expected to pay more but the price isn't that much. If I were doing something illegal, I'd pay even more. It doesn't even always have to be currency. Outside of the tourist areas, the policia may very well have a checkpoint before you enter a region. Cold beer is always welcome, as is soda. Etc... That's right here on my continent. You can find that just driving outside the tourist areas of Mexico. There's some effort to make it look official, but you can hand them a magazine with $5 - $20 in it, and they will slip it into their pocket, flip through the magazine, and wave you through. If you use a porno magazine, they may just keep it.

wallace_f 9y ago
What exactly about this works for you?
- KGIII 9y ago
  It gets things done quickly and easily. They don't make much money so it provides them with additional income. You can pay more for various services or head turning. It's pretty effective and pragmatic.
  - Nomentatus 9y ago
    An effective way of privileging wealthier foreigners, yup - not as effective in promoting domestic economic growth or serving poorer citizens I'm guessing.
    - KGIII 9y ago
      The police are pretty poor, you know. One act doesn't have to help everyone. Is it right? No. It is effective and pragmatic.
      - wallace_f 9y ago
        I once met someone who claimed that while they were in Vietnam they had been accused of having hard drugs. Despite the person's apparent innocence, they claimed to have paid over 500 euro to be let go. I also met someone who claimed in Malaysia their rental had the windows smashed out. They went to the police and the police didn't care to investigate, look at cctv, or help in any way. So I just don't see how this is pragmatic in any way for the average person for police to be more interested in road stoppages in these countries to collect $10 from every car than to actually solve crime. Why employ them at all?
        KGIII 9y ago
        They do actually do some police work. They don't just hang out and collect a toll. Locals may not even pay the toll. It is what it is and you're going to pay it if you want t travel there. If not, they'll find a way to dress it up legally and you'll pay it as a fine. You might just as well pay the smaller amount, then they won't beat you on your way to the local jail. Not every country is what people seem to be expecting, and less so when you get away from tourist areas. I do not condone it, but I understand. Also, I don't mind the downvoats, I have karma to spare. If this makes people uncomfortable, perhaps it's good that they know about it. It's pretty blatant, once you're out of the tourist areas - and happens all across the globe, not just there.