4 ms·

I think firing without giving warnings and opportunity to improve is sick. These people don't even know they were doing badly. I can't tell if they've been told

I think firing without giving warnings and opportunity to improve is sick. These people don't even know they were doing badly. I can't tell if they've been told where they screwed up. These people could be spending a lot of time figuring out what went wrong when everything seemed to be going fine. They don't deserve that, regardless of performance. They are people, they have lives and it wasn't anything like gross misconduct. I think Mr Musk has a lot to answer for.

walterbell 9y ago
Some countries have laws requiring notice and time for a performance improvement period, before final termination of employment.
- koevet 9y ago
  Yes, in Switzerland, for instance, a company is required to offer "job relocation" services for employees that have been working for the company for some years (I'm not sure how many exactly). These services (re-teach how to write a CV, how to prepare yourself for an interview, etc.) cost between 10K and 14K CHF per employee.
  - jaimex2 9y ago
    I'm in Australia and something like this seems very weird, you sometimes take for granted fair work laws till you see what happens in countries without them.
    - mcny 9y ago
      When I read about pip, I keep going back to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299310 I think even if we had regulations and requirements like that in the US, it would quickly devolve into a charade. Basically, a six month pip would be the same as a six month notice with the option to fire you any time anyway.
      - wooter 9y ago
        Dumb law IMO. I like at-will employment. I would be pissed if my company was paying 14k on my behalf for something so unnecessary. I can budget my education much better than the government, thanks.
        throw2016 9y ago
        Why would you be pissed? No employee is going to be 'pissed' about something designed to benefit them and ease a layoff.
        danmaz74 9y ago
        How can you budget your retraining if you get same-day notice and just 2 weeks severance?
      - watwut 9y ago
        Having six months to prepare for being fire sounds better then "bye tomorrow".
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - ksec 9y ago
      Well Basically every Commonwealth Countries and Countries inside EU, or to put it another way, the difference between the World and US.
AsyncAwait 9y ago
Musk seems to think that somebody like Chris Lattner is not good enough for Tesla, so his definition of a 'low performer' definitely seems a bit off. I just hope that the applies the same evaluative metrics to himself.
- stephengillie 9y ago
  In a 'Groucho Marx'-ian turn, what would Elon do if he judged himself wanting? Would he have to find a successor, or would he just walk?
  - AsyncAwait 9y ago
    It is a hard question to answer, as my ideal would be to reflect on his findings and adjust his behaviour/expectations towards others to match, however I am not sure many people in his position are actually capable of such deep introspection.
WillReplyfFood 9y ago
The intention is not to improve performance by removing useless people- the intention is to improve performance and dissent-less quotas on those who stay.

walterbell 9y ago

Some countries have laws requiring notice and time for a performance improvement period, before final termination of employment.

koevet 9y ago
Yes, in Switzerland, for instance, a company is required to offer "job relocation" services for employees that have been working for the company for some years (I'm not sure how many exactly). These services (re-teach how to write a CV, how to prepare yourself for an interview, etc.) cost between 10K and 14K CHF per employee.
- jaimex2 9y ago
  I'm in Australia and something like this seems very weird, you sometimes take for granted fair work laws till you see what happens in countries without them.
  - mcny 9y ago
    When I read about pip, I keep going back to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299310 I think even if we had regulations and requirements like that in the US, it would quickly devolve into a charade. Basically, a six month pip would be the same as a six month notice with the option to fire you any time anyway.
    - wooter 9y ago
      Dumb law IMO. I like at-will employment. I would be pissed if my company was paying 14k on my behalf for something so unnecessary. I can budget my education much better than the government, thanks.
      - throw2016 9y ago
        Why would you be pissed? No employee is going to be 'pissed' about something designed to benefit them and ease a layoff.
      - danmaz74 9y ago
        How can you budget your retraining if you get same-day notice and just 2 weeks severance?
    - watwut 9y ago
      Having six months to prepare for being fire sounds better then "bye tomorrow".
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - ksec 9y ago
    Well Basically every Commonwealth Countries and Countries inside EU, or to put it another way, the difference between the World and US.

AsyncAwait 9y ago

Musk seems to think that somebody like Chris Lattner is not good enough for Tesla, so his definition of a 'low performer' definitely seems a bit off. I just hope that the applies the same evaluative metrics to himself.

stephengillie 9y ago
In a 'Groucho Marx'-ian turn, what would Elon do if he judged himself wanting? Would he have to find a successor, or would he just walk?
- AsyncAwait 9y ago
  It is a hard question to answer, as my ideal would be to reflect on his findings and adjust his behaviour/expectations towards others to match, however I am not sure many people in his position are actually capable of such deep introspection.

WillReplyfFood 9y ago

The intention is not to improve performance by removing useless people- the intention is to improve performance and dissent-less quotas on those who stay.