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"Tesla has a hearing before the National Labor Relations Board in November for charges that company supervisors and security guards harassed workers distributin

"Tesla has a hearing before the National Labor Relations Board in November for charges that company supervisors and security guards harassed workers distributing union literature. Tesla denied the accusations. Openly pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted." - Local paper http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/13/4819750/ http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/13/4819750/ Edit: Added more lines from the preceding paragraph

dmitrygr 9y ago
> pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted I hate sneakily-worded sentences like this. Also among them, were women, hetrosexuals, and probably one or two Vietnam veterans. Some believe they were targetted.
- virtuabhi 9y ago
  My rule of thumb is to give benefit of doubt to weaker sections.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    In theory, Tesla might actually be the weaker party in this case. An industry-specific union is known in textbook economics as a labor cartel, or as a device which holds labor hostage. While historically they were necessary, today fewer examples exist of employees as the captive market--where a union makes sense. In other words, many times it is the employer who is taken advantage of. If unions were open and free to join for all people, I mean that would be one thing; but they are not. Membership is dependent on things such as family. They're tough and politically correct, but regressive and unfair.
- weirdstuff 9y ago
  How's it sneaky? Business management and shareholders routinely try to shut down unionizing all the time throughout the last two centuries. My buddy is a manager at a national retail chain and often comments on how proactively anti-union they are, just like their competitors. Other demographic groups like the ones you pointed out really don't have that same collective effect on the bottom line for shareholders across industries like those that unionize, whose only trait in common is that of a provider of labor.
  - dmitrygr 9y ago
    Parent edited post. It said before "amongthem were pro union workers"
  - late2part 9y ago
    It's sneaky because it's taken out of context. Yes, pro-union people were targeted. This may or may not be statistically significant. And what is "pro-union?" If they have 30k employees, and 3% of them are pro-union, and they laid off 1% - what are the odds that some of the folks laid off are pro-union but weren't targeted? What what are the odds that someone that wasn't targeted assumes they were? I have no idea what the facts are, but blind assertions like those in the article are foolish. Imagine reading an article about you that says "Some neighbors felt he was holding more guns than needed and enough ammunition to kill dozens of people." Or they said that your Internet service provider had noticed large bandwidth which is consistent with someone watching perverted pornography. These are baseless assertions - and therefore shallow.
    - RodericDay 9y ago
      > Though Tesla cited performance as the reason for the firings, the source told Reuters he was fired in spite of never having been given a bad review.
  - crazy1van 9y ago
    If it's not "sneaky", it's at least lazy. "Some believe they were targeted"... Who? Why? If I said "Some believe we didn't land on the moon", that would be a true statement. But, it's also a way at hinting that we may have really not landed on the moon without offering any evidence or even citing specific people who believe that.
    - AndrewCHM 9y ago
      "who", the people who were distributing union related materials "why", because they were distributing union related materials? "without offering any evidence", which is why it says "believe"
- lmm 9y ago
  Tesla is notoriously fond of libel lawsuits; a local paper probably can't afford to fight one.
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    References?
    - DonbunEf7 9y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Lawsuits_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Lawsuits_and_contr... is pretty well-filled-out.
      - dredmorbius 9y ago
        That lists one libel lawsuit by Tesla, against BBC and Top Gear. Claims dismissed. (And that's with the UK's quite liberal libel laws.) There's one other case mentioned, but that involved a libel suit against Tesla. The characterisation of GP is not substantiated.
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    Um. I find references to a grand total of one libel lawsuit of note by Tesla, against BBC / Top Gear. Claims rejected by the court. That fails to meet the threshold of "notoriously fond" in my book.
- 0xbear 9y ago
  At least it’s not “people familiar with Elon’s thinking”, because that’s the journalistic standard nowadays.
- KGIII 9y ago
  'Weasel Words.'
- alexasmyths 9y ago
  Though it may or may not be true, it would be very easy for Tesla to do a trimming and to 'make sure the baddies' got let go. I generally don't like unions, but I've of the mind that wherever they are 'trying to be formed' - that there is probably a reason for it. Quite a number of auto-plants in the US don't have unions, because there's some kind of 'de facto' standard-ops that have been established, and as long as the company plays by those rules, it works out. There has been some negative press about worker situations at Tesla, and it's hard to say for sure, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there were corners being cut etc..
11thEarlOfMar 9y ago
Correlation, not causation.

dmitrygr 9y ago

> pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted I hate sneakily-worded sentences like this. Also among them, were women, hetrosexuals, and probably one or two Vietnam veterans. Some believe they were targetted.

virtuabhi 9y ago
My rule of thumb is to give benefit of doubt to weaker sections.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  In theory, Tesla might actually be the weaker party in this case. An industry-specific union is known in textbook economics as a labor cartel, or as a device which holds labor hostage. While historically they were necessary, today fewer examples exist of employees as the captive market--where a union makes sense. In other words, many times it is the employer who is taken advantage of. If unions were open and free to join for all people, I mean that would be one thing; but they are not. Membership is dependent on things such as family. They're tough and politically correct, but regressive and unfair.
weirdstuff 9y ago
How's it sneaky? Business management and shareholders routinely try to shut down unionizing all the time throughout the last two centuries. My buddy is a manager at a national retail chain and often comments on how proactively anti-union they are, just like their competitors. Other demographic groups like the ones you pointed out really don't have that same collective effect on the bottom line for shareholders across industries like those that unionize, whose only trait in common is that of a provider of labor.
- dmitrygr 9y ago
  Parent edited post. It said before "amongthem were pro union workers"
- late2part 9y ago
  It's sneaky because it's taken out of context. Yes, pro-union people were targeted. This may or may not be statistically significant. And what is "pro-union?" If they have 30k employees, and 3% of them are pro-union, and they laid off 1% - what are the odds that some of the folks laid off are pro-union but weren't targeted? What what are the odds that someone that wasn't targeted assumes they were? I have no idea what the facts are, but blind assertions like those in the article are foolish. Imagine reading an article about you that says "Some neighbors felt he was holding more guns than needed and enough ammunition to kill dozens of people." Or they said that your Internet service provider had noticed large bandwidth which is consistent with someone watching perverted pornography. These are baseless assertions - and therefore shallow.
  - RodericDay 9y ago
    > Though Tesla cited performance as the reason for the firings, the source told Reuters he was fired in spite of never having been given a bad review.
- crazy1van 9y ago
  If it's not "sneaky", it's at least lazy. "Some believe they were targeted"... Who? Why? If I said "Some believe we didn't land on the moon", that would be a true statement. But, it's also a way at hinting that we may have really not landed on the moon without offering any evidence or even citing specific people who believe that.
  - AndrewCHM 9y ago
    "who", the people who were distributing union related materials "why", because they were distributing union related materials? "without offering any evidence", which is why it says "believe"
lmm 9y ago
Tesla is notoriously fond of libel lawsuits; a local paper probably can't afford to fight one.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  References?
  - DonbunEf7 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Lawsuits_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Lawsuits_and_contr... is pretty well-filled-out.
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      That lists one libel lawsuit by Tesla, against BBC and Top Gear. Claims dismissed. (And that's with the UK's quite liberal libel laws.) There's one other case mentioned, but that involved a libel suit against Tesla. The characterisation of GP is not substantiated.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  Um. I find references to a grand total of one libel lawsuit of note by Tesla, against BBC / Top Gear. Claims rejected by the court. That fails to meet the threshold of "notoriously fond" in my book.
0xbear 9y ago
At least it’s not “people familiar with Elon’s thinking”, because that’s the journalistic standard nowadays.
KGIII 9y ago
'Weasel Words.'
alexasmyths 9y ago
Though it may or may not be true, it would be very easy for Tesla to do a trimming and to 'make sure the baddies' got let go. I generally don't like unions, but I've of the mind that wherever they are 'trying to be formed' - that there is probably a reason for it. Quite a number of auto-plants in the US don't have unions, because there's some kind of 'de facto' standard-ops that have been established, and as long as the company plays by those rules, it works out. There has been some negative press about worker situations at Tesla, and it's hard to say for sure, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there were corners being cut etc..

11thEarlOfMar 9y ago

Correlation, not causation.