6 ms·

With that said, I’m really irked that amazon is using “private” shipping companies, I’m tired of seeing joe schmoes ring my bell in their Honda Civic or uhaul r

With that said, I’m really irked that amazon is using “private” shipping companies, I’m tired of seeing joe schmoes ring my bell in their Honda Civic or uhaul rental van, with my goods, my address, and seeing my house and family. They even take pictures with cell phone of package at door, wtf. Is there any background check, nope. Stick to a professional shipping company and not fly by night, random folks please

colordrops 9y ago
Have you had any actual problems with these "fly by night" shipping companies? Do "schmoes" not work at Fedex and UPS?
- wickawic 9y ago
  I have never seen a UPS employee throw a package at my house
  - tyingq 9y ago
    It happens. https://www.google.com/search?q=ups+employee+throws+package&prmd=nvsi&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&biw=360&bih=512 https://www.google.com/search?q=ups+employee+throws+package&...
  - anotherproj 9y ago
    There is an entire website dedicated to UPS employees throwing packages: http://dontthrowmypackage.com/category/ups/ http://dontthrowmypackage.com/category/ups/
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    Ha. I'll assume you are being sarcastic.
    - aeotnhu0923nt 9y ago
      I doubt it. We just moved, but in our previous neighborhood, we knew the UPS guy who did our deliveries. It was always the same guy, and he was great! He even gave us some great tips on where to vacation! I knew about his family probably more than he knew about ours.
- Applejinx 9y ago
  The end game is squeezing margins down until only house thieves are motivated to take such jobs, and either disclaiming responsibility or trying to manage it so few enough people get attacked/robbed/etc by predators signing up to deliver for whatever the ultra-budget-shipping thing is. And of course in the end the whole thing gets automated, but until then the strategy is to squeeze shipping as hard as possible, because employing safe people is part of the margin and it's cheaper if they're a lot more ephemeral.
  - c22 9y ago
    You don't need to get a job delivering packages to rob someone's house.
    - jjawssd 9y ago
      The research opportunity certainly increases the ROI
    - jjeaff 9y ago
      Nor would it be a good idea or helpful in any way to a thief. You would be robbing homes that someone somewhere has a list of, which is tied to your name.
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    Why would a house thief waste time delivering packages? Not only would that not help your thieving at all, but the company that hired you having all your info on file would make you much more likely to get caught. Assuming you are robbing houses you can deliver too. Putting on a fake delivery uniform and carrying around boxes that aren't meant to be delivered makes a lot more sense if you just need to case the houses before robbing.
    - jbob2000 9y ago
      Nobody has a career of being a "house thief", it's always a crime of opportunity. Given the low barrier to entry for delivery, they are good jobs for people coming out of jail or people with low education levels. So Joe Schmoe comes to your house, sees easy access to your backyard where your expensive BBQ sits, and wonders "shit, I could make a quick hundred bucks stealing that tonight, I already have the truck to move it!"
- grasshopperpurp 9y ago
  We have had problems with them marking items delivered that are not, but I know USPS has done this, and I expect UPS and FedEx have as well. It's not a big deal, especially since Amazon will send replacements without issue, but it is a little annoying. It is strange to receive mail from someone wearing a wife beater, and, in my experience, the drivers are much curter than USPS, UPS, or FedEx drivers, but I haven't come across anything that would cause me to file a complaint.
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  > Have you had any actual problems with these "fly by night" shipping companies? Do "schmoes" not work at Fedex and UPS? Yes. Fedex, UPS, and USPS drivers clearly have a much better grasp of how to correctly handle delivery exception scenarios. That's probably because they actually train their employees, and schedule them so they can learn their routes. You're never going to get that with with the short-term gig-economy randos Amazon hires.
DoctorNick 9y ago
how dare these dirty proles touch my precious package
- genericone 9y ago
  Clear ad-hominem attack if I've ever seen one. Maybe the comment could have been better phrased as a question: What is actually unprofessional about Amazon contracting package delivery to random individuals? I'm not in favor of it, but I haven't thought about it enough to have a good argument about the topic. @viperscape does bring up good points though: personal vehicles and the perception that Amazon has "granted permission" to random people to enter property and handle their goods. What are the arguments in favor or Amazon's new delivery model?
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  From my experience the probability of receiving a damaged package is much higher with OnTrac than with UPS or Fedex for example.
CPLX 9y ago
And your theory is there is something fundamentally and transformationally different when a guy working for a local subsidiary or independent contractor shows up in a truck with FedEx painted on the side?
- pbourke 9y ago
  The theory is that the incentives to behave properly differ between people who are employed delivering packages full time and those who do it as a gig.
  - danudey 9y ago
    Regardless of the number of times UPS drivers have been filmed just throwing a package over a fence or lobbing it onto a veranda rather than actually walking up the path? My experience has been far better with Amazon's deliverers than with shipping companies. I even had one who left a package under my doormat early in the morning and then noticed our lights come on so she came back to let us know it was there. With UPS, it's more likely I check my tracking number after being home all day and see it go from 'out for delivery' to 'waiting for pickup at UPS store' with no notification. They don't even make the attempt to deliver it, and that makes things less efficient (loading the truck up just to unload it again, making me wait all morning just to have to go to the store anyway, etc.) So yeah, personally it makes much more sense to me from all kinds of angles for Amazon to handle this stuff directly rather than deal with UPS or Fedex. Those companies are fine for getting a package from me to someone in Halifax, but for getting something from Amazon's warehouse an hour away to my doorstep, it makes no sense.
- morogop 9y ago
  Yes, and that would be a quite sensible theory for a number of quite obvious reasons.
- aeotnhu0923nt 9y ago
  Yes. If my security cam records him throwing the package onto my porch, I have somewhere I can complain to, and I can probably ask my neighbors if they've had the same problems with the same driver. Whereas, when some guy I've never seen before rolls up in a Honda Civic, who do I complain to? I can try complaining to Amazon, but were they even the one who hired the guy? Or did they subcontract that out to a logistics company who subcontracted it to a local company who subcontracted it to the guy with the Civic? Those smaller subcontractors don't have to worry about damaging their brand. If they start losing customers, they simply rebrand or sign up with a different one of their supercontractors and keep on trucking.
iamdave 9y ago
Is there any background check, nope. Yes, actually there are background checks.
- jjeaff 9y ago
  Are there background checks for ups or FedEx drivers? Many FedEx drivers are actually contractors as well.
glibgil 9y ago
Random folks doing odd jobs is good. It puts responsibility back on society. Rather than background checks done by an employer, we should regulate industry. The equivalent of a food handlers license for customer privacy and safety for Uber drivers, Amazon delivers and Walmart greeters and even your bank manager and CPA would be better for society
- KekDemaga 9y ago
  YES! finally the 3rd party shipper Amazon uses will be as convenient and efficient as the postal service!
- Theodores 9y ago
  That is a good idea. If you sell ice cream in the street you still need a Pedlar's License in the UK. If it is a school fete and you are selling ice cream to passers-by in the street then that is still law breaking but if you are doing that one day in a year in a small village with the money going to charity then that can be overlooked, but every day? I think you would be closed down soon. I think the gig economy should have a similar Pedlar's License. There should be some paperwork. Maybe no more hard than Basic Food Hygiene that you get working in the food trade. This would also allow local authorities to refuse. So if they didn't want the food delivery guys then they could just restrict licences. Standards, e.g. lights on bikes, MOST for cars, all should be part of this license for doing door to door deliveries. Standardisation could result in no drivers getting it wrong whether hired the UPS or FedEx way. If the driver ID was a standardized way of doing tracking then that could even be part of the final mile procedure.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    More licensure with requirements for using the license might be good for a gig economy, but likely only if we have some way of vetting licenses for general usefulness, so they aren't just ways to limit a market and protect the existing license holders and not the public.[1] If we had rules about what a license should promote (such as public safety, accountability, etc) and what it should try to prevent (rent seeking, protectionism) and metrics by which to measure this (even if an impartial panel), we could possible greatly increase the number of licenses we require while also lowering the bar of entry for many existing licensed businesses. I understand this would be a tricky path to take. It's layering bureaucracy, which is often problematic. But I'm not sure we necessarily want random unaccountable people driving around throwing packages at us, nor doctors practicing without experience, and I don't think having to pay $1000 and take a one week course for licensure to deliver packages for Amazon is useful either. 1: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/04/14/524007928/episode-381-when-business-loves-regulation http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/04/14/524007928/episo...
slackingoff2017 9y ago
Lol. I'm sure random people walk around your house all the time unless you're in the middle of nowhere. What's stopping a random guy from walking around taking pictures through all the windows when they see you leave? Nothing. Dude just dresses up like the meter reader and does whatever he wants. Even if you "catch" the guy he did nothing illegal. In most places it's totally fine to stroll around on other people's land unless "no trespassing" is clearly marked. Got one of those big signs in your front yard? If you ever leave the house I'm sure pictures of you with your family have been streamed on countless webcams over the years and probably live TV. You have no real security unless you've got a cement room with no windows and a metal door. Anything less is just to make people feel better Your perceived privacy violations sound pretty mundane to me.
- jjeaff 9y ago
  I agree. I have seen these kind of complaints a lot and I just don't get it. "Now some random person knows where I live." ... Uh, well, they know where -someone- lives, but they don't know you. I can't see how this is a problem unless your house is some kind of camoflauged hidden lair. Houses are easy enough to find. You don't need to get a job as a delivery person to find where houses are. The fact that they delivered a package to your house doesn't make you any more of a target than anyone else. Maybe if you were having gold bricks delivered and they were clearly marked "expensive gold bricks" on the package.
- antisthenes 9y ago
  It's just thinly veiled racism/classism. Nothing to see here. That or the dude legitimately expects white glove delivery for bottom shelf pricing, which is even more absurd.

colordrops 9y ago

Have you had any actual problems with these "fly by night" shipping companies? Do "schmoes" not work at Fedex and UPS?

wickawic 9y ago
I have never seen a UPS employee throw a package at my house
- tyingq 9y ago
  It happens. https://www.google.com/search?q=ups+employee+throws+package&prmd=nvsi&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&biw=360&bih=512 https://www.google.com/search?q=ups+employee+throws+package&...
- anotherproj 9y ago
  There is an entire website dedicated to UPS employees throwing packages: http://dontthrowmypackage.com/category/ups/ http://dontthrowmypackage.com/category/ups/
- jjeaff 9y ago
  Ha. I'll assume you are being sarcastic.
  - aeotnhu0923nt 9y ago
    I doubt it. We just moved, but in our previous neighborhood, we knew the UPS guy who did our deliveries. It was always the same guy, and he was great! He even gave us some great tips on where to vacation! I knew about his family probably more than he knew about ours.
Applejinx 9y ago
The end game is squeezing margins down until only house thieves are motivated to take such jobs, and either disclaiming responsibility or trying to manage it so few enough people get attacked/robbed/etc by predators signing up to deliver for whatever the ultra-budget-shipping thing is. And of course in the end the whole thing gets automated, but until then the strategy is to squeeze shipping as hard as possible, because employing safe people is part of the margin and it's cheaper if they're a lot more ephemeral.
- c22 9y ago
  You don't need to get a job delivering packages to rob someone's house.
  - jjawssd 9y ago
    The research opportunity certainly increases the ROI
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    Nor would it be a good idea or helpful in any way to a thief. You would be robbing homes that someone somewhere has a list of, which is tied to your name.
- jjeaff 9y ago
  Why would a house thief waste time delivering packages? Not only would that not help your thieving at all, but the company that hired you having all your info on file would make you much more likely to get caught. Assuming you are robbing houses you can deliver too. Putting on a fake delivery uniform and carrying around boxes that aren't meant to be delivered makes a lot more sense if you just need to case the houses before robbing.
  - jbob2000 9y ago
    Nobody has a career of being a "house thief", it's always a crime of opportunity. Given the low barrier to entry for delivery, they are good jobs for people coming out of jail or people with low education levels. So Joe Schmoe comes to your house, sees easy access to your backyard where your expensive BBQ sits, and wonders "shit, I could make a quick hundred bucks stealing that tonight, I already have the truck to move it!"
grasshopperpurp 9y ago
We have had problems with them marking items delivered that are not, but I know USPS has done this, and I expect UPS and FedEx have as well. It's not a big deal, especially since Amazon will send replacements without issue, but it is a little annoying. It is strange to receive mail from someone wearing a wife beater, and, in my experience, the drivers are much curter than USPS, UPS, or FedEx drivers, but I haven't come across anything that would cause me to file a complaint.
Chaebixi 9y ago
> Have you had any actual problems with these "fly by night" shipping companies? Do "schmoes" not work at Fedex and UPS? Yes. Fedex, UPS, and USPS drivers clearly have a much better grasp of how to correctly handle delivery exception scenarios. That's probably because they actually train their employees, and schedule them so they can learn their routes. You're never going to get that with with the short-term gig-economy randos Amazon hires.

DoctorNick 9y ago

how dare these dirty proles touch my precious package

genericone 9y ago
Clear ad-hominem attack if I've ever seen one. Maybe the comment could have been better phrased as a question: What is actually unprofessional about Amazon contracting package delivery to random individuals? I'm not in favor of it, but I haven't thought about it enough to have a good argument about the topic. @viperscape does bring up good points though: personal vehicles and the perception that Amazon has "granted permission" to random people to enter property and handle their goods. What are the arguments in favor or Amazon's new delivery model?
maxxxxx 9y ago
From my experience the probability of receiving a damaged package is much higher with OnTrac than with UPS or Fedex for example.

CPLX 9y ago

And your theory is there is something fundamentally and transformationally different when a guy working for a local subsidiary or independent contractor shows up in a truck with FedEx painted on the side?

pbourke 9y ago
The theory is that the incentives to behave properly differ between people who are employed delivering packages full time and those who do it as a gig.
- danudey 9y ago
  Regardless of the number of times UPS drivers have been filmed just throwing a package over a fence or lobbing it onto a veranda rather than actually walking up the path? My experience has been far better with Amazon's deliverers than with shipping companies. I even had one who left a package under my doormat early in the morning and then noticed our lights come on so she came back to let us know it was there. With UPS, it's more likely I check my tracking number after being home all day and see it go from 'out for delivery' to 'waiting for pickup at UPS store' with no notification. They don't even make the attempt to deliver it, and that makes things less efficient (loading the truck up just to unload it again, making me wait all morning just to have to go to the store anyway, etc.) So yeah, personally it makes much more sense to me from all kinds of angles for Amazon to handle this stuff directly rather than deal with UPS or Fedex. Those companies are fine for getting a package from me to someone in Halifax, but for getting something from Amazon's warehouse an hour away to my doorstep, it makes no sense.
morogop 9y ago
Yes, and that would be a quite sensible theory for a number of quite obvious reasons.
aeotnhu0923nt 9y ago
Yes. If my security cam records him throwing the package onto my porch, I have somewhere I can complain to, and I can probably ask my neighbors if they've had the same problems with the same driver. Whereas, when some guy I've never seen before rolls up in a Honda Civic, who do I complain to? I can try complaining to Amazon, but were they even the one who hired the guy? Or did they subcontract that out to a logistics company who subcontracted it to a local company who subcontracted it to the guy with the Civic? Those smaller subcontractors don't have to worry about damaging their brand. If they start losing customers, they simply rebrand or sign up with a different one of their supercontractors and keep on trucking.

iamdave 9y ago

Is there any background check, nope. Yes, actually there are background checks.

jjeaff 9y ago
Are there background checks for ups or FedEx drivers? Many FedEx drivers are actually contractors as well.

glibgil 9y ago

Random folks doing odd jobs is good. It puts responsibility back on society. Rather than background checks done by an employer, we should regulate industry. The equivalent of a food handlers license for customer privacy and safety for Uber drivers, Amazon delivers and Walmart greeters and even your bank manager and CPA would be better for society

KekDemaga 9y ago
YES! finally the 3rd party shipper Amazon uses will be as convenient and efficient as the postal service!
Theodores 9y ago
That is a good idea. If you sell ice cream in the street you still need a Pedlar's License in the UK. If it is a school fete and you are selling ice cream to passers-by in the street then that is still law breaking but if you are doing that one day in a year in a small village with the money going to charity then that can be overlooked, but every day? I think you would be closed down soon. I think the gig economy should have a similar Pedlar's License. There should be some paperwork. Maybe no more hard than Basic Food Hygiene that you get working in the food trade. This would also allow local authorities to refuse. So if they didn't want the food delivery guys then they could just restrict licences. Standards, e.g. lights on bikes, MOST for cars, all should be part of this license for doing door to door deliveries. Standardisation could result in no drivers getting it wrong whether hired the UPS or FedEx way. If the driver ID was a standardized way of doing tracking then that could even be part of the final mile procedure.
- kbenson 9y ago
  More licensure with requirements for using the license might be good for a gig economy, but likely only if we have some way of vetting licenses for general usefulness, so they aren't just ways to limit a market and protect the existing license holders and not the public.[1] If we had rules about what a license should promote (such as public safety, accountability, etc) and what it should try to prevent (rent seeking, protectionism) and metrics by which to measure this (even if an impartial panel), we could possible greatly increase the number of licenses we require while also lowering the bar of entry for many existing licensed businesses. I understand this would be a tricky path to take. It's layering bureaucracy, which is often problematic. But I'm not sure we necessarily want random unaccountable people driving around throwing packages at us, nor doctors practicing without experience, and I don't think having to pay $1000 and take a one week course for licensure to deliver packages for Amazon is useful either. 1: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/04/14/524007928/episode-381-when-business-loves-regulation http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/04/14/524007928/episo...

slackingoff2017 9y ago

Lol. I'm sure random people walk around your house all the time unless you're in the middle of nowhere. What's stopping a random guy from walking around taking pictures through all the windows when they see you leave? Nothing. Dude just dresses up like the meter reader and does whatever he wants. Even if you "catch" the guy he did nothing illegal. In most places it's totally fine to stroll around on other people's land unless "no trespassing" is clearly marked. Got one of those big signs in your front yard? If you ever leave the house I'm sure pictures of you with your family have been streamed on countless webcams over the years and probably live TV. You have no real security unless you've got a cement room with no windows and a metal door. Anything less is just to make people feel better Your perceived privacy violations sound pretty mundane to me.

jjeaff 9y ago
I agree. I have seen these kind of complaints a lot and I just don't get it. "Now some random person knows where I live." ... Uh, well, they know where -someone- lives, but they don't know you. I can't see how this is a problem unless your house is some kind of camoflauged hidden lair. Houses are easy enough to find. You don't need to get a job as a delivery person to find where houses are. The fact that they delivered a package to your house doesn't make you any more of a target than anyone else. Maybe if you were having gold bricks delivered and they were clearly marked "expensive gold bricks" on the package.
antisthenes 9y ago
It's just thinly veiled racism/classism. Nothing to see here. That or the dude legitimately expects white glove delivery for bottom shelf pricing, which is even more absurd.