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> I'm one of those crazy people who believes in standards-based protocols and commodity hosting service). If that counts as crazy, then lock me up, because I'm

> I'm one of those crazy people who believes in standards-based protocols and commodity hosting service). If that counts as crazy, then lock me up, because I'm crazy too. I'll second everything you said, but I'm not so sure it's entirely ignorance - I believe a large number of people just don't care (which is ignorance of another kind).

oneweekwonder 9y ago
> standards-based protocols Ok seeing we talking IoT what standard: of the top of my head mqtt, coap, http/rest, soap? Those are just communication protocols. Now we still need to standardize the application data layer jsonschema, swagger/openapi, wsdl? and most of the time the vendor wants to own the application for their benefit. Also the classic xkcd of standards leading to more standards is so true. As you mentioned the problem lies with the general public, don't care attitude. Hopefully there is enough that will try to educate and help their peers. But a lot of us is going to learn the hard way how criminals used our iot devices against us to rob us blind and only then change will truly start to take place.
- throw2016 9y ago
  This self serving 'general public don't care' argument by software folks is becoming tired and cliched. The general public doesn't care about freedom of press. Let's take that away. The general public doesn't care about elections. Let's take that away. People use these self serving assumptions of ignorance to empower themselves. You have a ton of devices and things you use in your everyday life. Why should a doctor or civil engineer need to understand the details of software and hardware technologies to get value from it? Do all software folks understand the details of medical stuff or their home construction? That's why you need regulations, so vague terms like the 'general public don't care' are not used to abuse them.
  - npsimons 9y ago
    > That's why you need standards, so vague terms like the 'general public don't care' are not used to abuse them. I wouldn't argue so much for standards of technology, as for standards of conduct. It's funny you mention doctors and civil engineers, two professions with high ethical standards precisely because they went through the same painful growth the software industry is going through now. The 'general public', quite frankly, is ignorant about a great many things. And let's be honest: it is very rare indeed to be the kind of person with the aptitude, time and willingness to become a polymath to the point that you'll never be scammed in any field, ever. It is incumbent upon us, the knowledgeable and ethical practicioners of our field, to hold not just ourselves, but our whole industry to a higher standard. Thus, discussions such as this one on HN where we point out that IoT devices could cause a world of hurt because of all the make-a-quick-buck hucksters who couldn't be arsed to do due diligience.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      > two professions with high ethical standards precisely because they went through the same painful growth the software industry is going through now. High ethical standards enforced by a court of your peer professionals, who can ruin your career if you break the code of conduct. The last part is, unfortunately, crucial, because ethics can quickly go out of the window when people face monetary pressures. > It is incumbent upon us, the knowledgeable and ethical practicioners of our field, to hold not just ourselves, but our whole industry to a higher standard. Thus, discussions such as this one on HN where we point out that IoT devices could cause a world of hurt because of all the make-a-quick-buck hucksters who couldn't be arsed to do due diligience. I strongly agree. And I feel there should be loud naming and shaming of companies with anti-consumer practices like these. One thing I feel we can teach the general public, though, is the distrust towards the cloud and SaaS model. IoT devices can, and should, communicate point-to-point or in your LAN. If a device needs an Internet connection to work and doesn't have a damn good reason for that, one should avoid it.
EvanAnderson 9y ago
They don't know to care. That's why I think we need public education. As companies who make these "IoT" devices go bust and the various Internet-enabled cloud widgets the general public has purchased turn into bricks people will get an "education" of a sort.

oneweekwonder 9y ago

> standards-based protocols Ok seeing we talking IoT what standard: of the top of my head mqtt, coap, http/rest, soap? Those are just communication protocols. Now we still need to standardize the application data layer jsonschema, swagger/openapi, wsdl? and most of the time the vendor wants to own the application for their benefit. Also the classic xkcd of standards leading to more standards is so true. As you mentioned the problem lies with the general public, don't care attitude. Hopefully there is enough that will try to educate and help their peers. But a lot of us is going to learn the hard way how criminals used our iot devices against us to rob us blind and only then change will truly start to take place.

throw2016 9y ago
This self serving 'general public don't care' argument by software folks is becoming tired and cliched. The general public doesn't care about freedom of press. Let's take that away. The general public doesn't care about elections. Let's take that away. People use these self serving assumptions of ignorance to empower themselves. You have a ton of devices and things you use in your everyday life. Why should a doctor or civil engineer need to understand the details of software and hardware technologies to get value from it? Do all software folks understand the details of medical stuff or their home construction? That's why you need regulations, so vague terms like the 'general public don't care' are not used to abuse them.
- npsimons 9y ago
  > That's why you need standards, so vague terms like the 'general public don't care' are not used to abuse them. I wouldn't argue so much for standards of technology, as for standards of conduct. It's funny you mention doctors and civil engineers, two professions with high ethical standards precisely because they went through the same painful growth the software industry is going through now. The 'general public', quite frankly, is ignorant about a great many things. And let's be honest: it is very rare indeed to be the kind of person with the aptitude, time and willingness to become a polymath to the point that you'll never be scammed in any field, ever. It is incumbent upon us, the knowledgeable and ethical practicioners of our field, to hold not just ourselves, but our whole industry to a higher standard. Thus, discussions such as this one on HN where we point out that IoT devices could cause a world of hurt because of all the make-a-quick-buck hucksters who couldn't be arsed to do due diligience.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    > two professions with high ethical standards precisely because they went through the same painful growth the software industry is going through now. High ethical standards enforced by a court of your peer professionals, who can ruin your career if you break the code of conduct. The last part is, unfortunately, crucial, because ethics can quickly go out of the window when people face monetary pressures. > It is incumbent upon us, the knowledgeable and ethical practicioners of our field, to hold not just ourselves, but our whole industry to a higher standard. Thus, discussions such as this one on HN where we point out that IoT devices could cause a world of hurt because of all the make-a-quick-buck hucksters who couldn't be arsed to do due diligience. I strongly agree. And I feel there should be loud naming and shaming of companies with anti-consumer practices like these. One thing I feel we can teach the general public, though, is the distrust towards the cloud and SaaS model. IoT devices can, and should, communicate point-to-point or in your LAN. If a device needs an Internet connection to work and doesn't have a damn good reason for that, one should avoid it.

EvanAnderson 9y ago

They don't know to care. That's why I think we need public education. As companies who make these "IoT" devices go bust and the various Internet-enabled cloud widgets the general public has purchased turn into bricks people will get an "education" of a sort.