5 ms·

This is wishful thinking, to put it mildly. What on earth concerns you about a labour government?

Jdam 9y ago
Maybe Corbyn, who's apparently a Marxist? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4483990/David-Gauke-warns-Labour-s-UK-hard-left-experiment.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4483990/David-Gauke-... To me, that's a higher threat than Brexit.
- maxehmookau 9y ago
  The Daily Mail isn't even an acceptable source on Wikipedia let alone on HN.
  - Jdam 9y ago
    Okay. But is The Guardian acceptable in your political view? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxis...
    - vertex-four 9y ago
      Meh, that is not a critique of Corbyn as a Marxist, it's using communism as a scare word without delving into what Marxism actually is and why Corbyn matches the definition. Do you have a critique by someone who actually knows what Marxism is? I can find plenty of descriptions of many politicians as Fascist (and usually better researched than this), doesn't mean most of them are.
      - pjc50 9y ago
        Specifically that article is by Damian McBride, who was Gordon Brown's SPAD. It's continuation of a political brawl by means of a newspaper column. Not a very nice chap: "On 11 April 2009, he resigned his position after it emerged on a political blog that he and another Labour Party advisor, Derek Draper, had exchanged emails discussing the possibility of disseminating rumours McBride had fabricated about the private lives of some Conservative Party politicians and their spouses. The emails from McBride had been sent from his No. 10 Downing Street email account."
      - cmsd2 9y ago
        Chris Dillow is a good read on this topic http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2017/09/mcdonnells-marxist-critics.html http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbli...
    - maxehmookau 9y ago
      I didn't say anything about my political view. I said the Daily Mail is not acceptable as a source in Wikipedia. Which it is not.
  - Yetanfou 9y ago
    In this case there are plenty of sources saying the same thing so it does not make sense to shoot the messenger. https://www.startpage.com/do/search?q=corbyn+marxism https://www.startpage.com/do/search?q=corbyn+marxism
    - maxehmookau 9y ago
      A web search doesn't count as research. No reputable journalist in the UK genuinely believes that Corbyn is a marxist. It's lazy 'googling' about 'facts' that landed America with Trump.
      - Yetanfou 9y ago
        A web search is not meant to count as research, it is the equivalent of a library catalogue search. You're meant to follow the links and find out what is written on the subject. It is the internet equivalent of a literature study and as such a form or research. The assumption here is that the reader is intelligent enough to be able to separate authoritative sources from hearsay and agenda-based publications. By the way, using terms like "no reputable journalist" is called "Master suppression technique" or "domination technique" [1]. It is detrimental to having a fact-based discussion and generally seen as a cop-out for those who don't have real arguments to add to the discussion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_suppression_technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_suppression_technique
ralmidani 9y ago
Aside from tolerance for Antisemitism, being soft on Russia, picking and choosing on human rights (e.g. Syria), and appealing to base instincts on immigration (Eastern Europeans are keeping your wages down), what's so bad about Corbyn-led Labour?
- pjc50 9y ago
  Don't all of those apply to conservative party as well? (Perhaps substitute Islamophobia for antisemitism)
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    Yes, yes they do. Except more so.
- maxehmookau 9y ago
  Oh I see. It's Corbyn's right-wing credentials that put you off him. Of course.
  - ralmidani 9y ago
    I'm neither left nor right. Corbyn manages to bring together the worst of both worlds.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
    It doesn't matter how left-wing a politician appears to be, or even how left-wing they are in general; if they hold an odious reactionary opinion, they can be called out on that opinion.
- zimablue 9y ago
  Antisemitism: mainstream Labour isn't antisemitic, that was largely a point pushed in our right media to discredit them. The left wing of the party is definitely anti-Israel though, and pro-Israel forces always try to conflate the two. The Labour party is much, much less racist than the Tory party on average, it's the sort of thing that's hard to prove with a neat fact you just have to spend time in a pub with either side or read a lot of their literature for dog-whistles. soft on Russia: who knows, it's not like we have the military clout for it to matter much picking and choosing on human rights: doesn't everyone immigration racism - no, Corbyn's message (that i also disagree with actually) is to redirect the focus onto exploitative employers. It's his talking point on immigration along with NHS staffing, every time. The labour party has gotten worse on this but they're still miles behind the Tories Sorry to do politics on HN but this post needed to be called out, none of these points are a combination of relevant and applying more to Labour than the Tories.
curtisblaine 9y ago
Taxes are concerning. More taxes on the medium-upper class.

Jdam 9y ago

Maybe Corbyn, who's apparently a Marxist? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4483990/David-Gauke-warns-Labour-s-UK-hard-left-experiment.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4483990/David-Gauke-... To me, that's a higher threat than Brexit.

maxehmookau 9y ago
The Daily Mail isn't even an acceptable source on Wikipedia let alone on HN.
- Jdam 9y ago
  Okay. But is The Guardian acceptable in your political view? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxis...
  - vertex-four 9y ago
    Meh, that is not a critique of Corbyn as a Marxist, it's using communism as a scare word without delving into what Marxism actually is and why Corbyn matches the definition. Do you have a critique by someone who actually knows what Marxism is? I can find plenty of descriptions of many politicians as Fascist (and usually better researched than this), doesn't mean most of them are.
    - pjc50 9y ago
      Specifically that article is by Damian McBride, who was Gordon Brown's SPAD. It's continuation of a political brawl by means of a newspaper column. Not a very nice chap: "On 11 April 2009, he resigned his position after it emerged on a political blog that he and another Labour Party advisor, Derek Draper, had exchanged emails discussing the possibility of disseminating rumours McBride had fabricated about the private lives of some Conservative Party politicians and their spouses. The emails from McBride had been sent from his No. 10 Downing Street email account."
    - cmsd2 9y ago
      Chris Dillow is a good read on this topic http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2017/09/mcdonnells-marxist-critics.html http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbli...
  - maxehmookau 9y ago
    I didn't say anything about my political view. I said the Daily Mail is not acceptable as a source in Wikipedia. Which it is not.
- Yetanfou 9y ago
  In this case there are plenty of sources saying the same thing so it does not make sense to shoot the messenger. https://www.startpage.com/do/search?q=corbyn+marxism https://www.startpage.com/do/search?q=corbyn+marxism
  - maxehmookau 9y ago
    A web search doesn't count as research. No reputable journalist in the UK genuinely believes that Corbyn is a marxist. It's lazy 'googling' about 'facts' that landed America with Trump.
    - Yetanfou 9y ago
      A web search is not meant to count as research, it is the equivalent of a library catalogue search. You're meant to follow the links and find out what is written on the subject. It is the internet equivalent of a literature study and as such a form or research. The assumption here is that the reader is intelligent enough to be able to separate authoritative sources from hearsay and agenda-based publications. By the way, using terms like "no reputable journalist" is called "Master suppression technique" or "domination technique" [1]. It is detrimental to having a fact-based discussion and generally seen as a cop-out for those who don't have real arguments to add to the discussion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_suppression_technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_suppression_technique

ralmidani 9y ago

Aside from tolerance for Antisemitism, being soft on Russia, picking and choosing on human rights (e.g. Syria), and appealing to base instincts on immigration (Eastern Europeans are keeping your wages down), what's so bad about Corbyn-led Labour?

pjc50 9y ago
Don't all of those apply to conservative party as well? (Perhaps substitute Islamophobia for antisemitism)
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  Yes, yes they do. Except more so.
maxehmookau 9y ago
Oh I see. It's Corbyn's right-wing credentials that put you off him. Of course.
- ralmidani 9y ago
  I'm neither left nor right. Corbyn manages to bring together the worst of both worlds.
- SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
  It doesn't matter how left-wing a politician appears to be, or even how left-wing they are in general; if they hold an odious reactionary opinion, they can be called out on that opinion.
zimablue 9y ago
Antisemitism: mainstream Labour isn't antisemitic, that was largely a point pushed in our right media to discredit them. The left wing of the party is definitely anti-Israel though, and pro-Israel forces always try to conflate the two. The Labour party is much, much less racist than the Tory party on average, it's the sort of thing that's hard to prove with a neat fact you just have to spend time in a pub with either side or read a lot of their literature for dog-whistles. soft on Russia: who knows, it's not like we have the military clout for it to matter much picking and choosing on human rights: doesn't everyone immigration racism - no, Corbyn's message (that i also disagree with actually) is to redirect the focus onto exploitative employers. It's his talking point on immigration along with NHS staffing, every time. The labour party has gotten worse on this but they're still miles behind the Tories Sorry to do politics on HN but this post needed to be called out, none of these points are a combination of relevant and applying more to Labour than the Tories.

curtisblaine 9y ago

Taxes are concerning. More taxes on the medium-upper class.