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is anybody forcing you to use datomic? no. is cognitect doing something to clojure that is beneficial exclusively for datomic? no. has cognitect banned you fr

is anybody forcing you to use datomic? no. is cognitect doing something to clojure that is beneficial exclusively for datomic? no. has cognitect banned you from making pull requests that improve clojure? no. has cognitect banned you from forking clojure and fixing whatever you think they've done with some evil intent? no. so wtf are you on about?

whalesalad 9y ago
AFAIK clojure doesn’t accept pull requests.
- keymone 9y ago
  "send a patch" sounds so 90s, but you're right.
geofft 9y ago
> has cognitect banned you from forking clojure and fixing whatever you think they've done with some evil intent? no. I don't understand this objection. The value in a free software project, and especially of a programming language, is primarily in its community and the expectation of a future around the project, not in the existence of some code somewhere. It's extraordinarily hard to build a community around a fork, and if you need to fork to do reasonable things, that's a legitimate criticism of the people running the original community. (That said, if you only need to fork to do unreasonable things, that's good community management. I don't pay nearly enough attention to Clojure to know what's actually happening - but I have seen both of these cases in other free software communities.)
- keymone 9y ago
  > It's extraordinarily hard to build a community around a fork it follows quite naturally, that reasoning to fork doesn't have enough community support, which only means one thing - you're wrong about clojure community's opinion on state of things around clojure.
  - krisdol 9y ago
    Adding to that, there are a few forks of popular projects that were quite successful: io.js, libreoffice, mariadb.
    - evilduck 9y ago
      Blink, Ubuntu, neovim, LibreSSL, Plex, XOrg, etc, etc. If you're dedicated to it and correct about your choices, forking doesn't seem to hamper anything.
  - geofft 9y ago
    I'd believe that if it were ordinarily hard to fork. But it's disproportionately hard to fork because of network effects. It's true that if the community approves of the current direction, a fork won't succeed. But that doesn't mean that if a fork doesn't succeed, it implies the community approves.
- DigitalJack 9y ago
  "It's extraordinarily hard to build a community around a fork" This may sound snarky, but I mean it earnestly: It's extraordinarily hard to build a community. Period.

whalesalad 9y ago

AFAIK clojure doesn’t accept pull requests.

keymone 9y ago
"send a patch" sounds so 90s, but you're right.

geofft 9y ago

> has cognitect banned you from forking clojure and fixing whatever you think they've done with some evil intent? no. I don't understand this objection. The value in a free software project, and especially of a programming language, is primarily in its community and the expectation of a future around the project, not in the existence of some code somewhere. It's extraordinarily hard to build a community around a fork, and if you need to fork to do reasonable things, that's a legitimate criticism of the people running the original community. (That said, if you only need to fork to do unreasonable things, that's good community management. I don't pay nearly enough attention to Clojure to know what's actually happening - but I have seen both of these cases in other free software communities.)

keymone 9y ago
> It's extraordinarily hard to build a community around a fork it follows quite naturally, that reasoning to fork doesn't have enough community support, which only means one thing - you're wrong about clojure community's opinion on state of things around clojure.
- krisdol 9y ago
  Adding to that, there are a few forks of popular projects that were quite successful: io.js, libreoffice, mariadb.
  - evilduck 9y ago
    Blink, Ubuntu, neovim, LibreSSL, Plex, XOrg, etc, etc. If you're dedicated to it and correct about your choices, forking doesn't seem to hamper anything.
- geofft 9y ago
  I'd believe that if it were ordinarily hard to fork. But it's disproportionately hard to fork because of network effects. It's true that if the community approves of the current direction, a fork won't succeed. But that doesn't mean that if a fork doesn't succeed, it implies the community approves.
DigitalJack 9y ago
"It's extraordinarily hard to build a community around a fork" This may sound snarky, but I mean it earnestly: It's extraordinarily hard to build a community. Period.